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passthepitonspete


Mar 23, 2003, 4:36 PM
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Look at this dude! He's cheating!

http://www.supertopo.com/...s/w500/jd_elcap6.jpg

I have NEVER done this! [Hmph!] No way. I would never let someone take my picture when I'm cheating. Not a chance.

Sheesh.


bvb


Mar 23, 2003, 4:40 PM
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so, whaddid ya do, drop yer lovetron? i thnk there's a good A4 hook placement 17' over your head and 8' to your left.


apollodorus


Mar 23, 2003, 5:02 PM
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Actually, he DID drop the Lovetron (no, I dropped it). Luckily it was after he used it where he had to. Amazingly, it walked back to Camp 4 and waited for us at the ranger's kiosk.


bandycoot


Mar 23, 2003, 5:07 PM
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I have to play the ignorant fool. What is a lovetron, and can someone explain to me the ethics behind what he is doing that is cheating (I can't even tell exactly WHAT he is doing due to my vast ignorance in the realm of aid but would like to learn!!!)

Josh


climbingpride


Mar 23, 2003, 5:59 PM
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He's useing his Big Wall hammer for a cheater stick! Man! Us sport climbers use those light telescoping polls. Sheesh. And Bigwallers/Aid Climbers think think they're all that. They can't even cheat good/well- whatever one is proper english. Or if your like me and 6'5.5" You could have reached it w/o aid.


*stilll wonders why you take pictures of you cheating.


bighigaz


Mar 23, 2003, 6:11 PM
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PTPP, I think I sense a bit of nervous sarcasm in your post, eh... :lol:


passthepitonspete


Mar 23, 2003, 6:17 PM
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Uh-oh. Did William have his nine-thousand-millimetre lens trained on me? Is there a picture lurkingout there somewhere?

{Dr. Piton glances nervously round, and loosens the collar on his, uh, T-shirt. Funny, is it getting warm in here?}


tanner


Mar 23, 2003, 7:17 PM
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isn't aid climbing all about cheating?

I don't aid climb (My friends would punch me if I pull on gear)


oklahoma_climber


Mar 23, 2003, 7:42 PM
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In reply to:
isn't aid climbing all about cheating?

I don't aid climb (My friends would punch me if I pull on gear)
I'm with you tanner, I've got a tough time swallowing the idea of using the gear to get up when there is all that rock waiting to get cranked on.


pbjosh


Mar 23, 2003, 8:06 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong Pete & other valley wall trivia buffs, but a Lovetron is a cheatstick for walls that Randy Leavitt came up with to reach past blank stretches to gear placements/hooks instead of drilling past them. Of course, the though of a hook on a 10-20' pole with a rope attached that you place blindly and then jug up kinda doesn't jive with me.

josh


terrainerist


Mar 23, 2003, 8:11 PM
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Grapling Hook [In reply to]
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Yeah... it's aid climbing! Why not a rope with a boat anchor sized grapling hook like Batman used to use! :)


flying_dutchman


Mar 23, 2003, 8:45 PM
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its just aid climbing with a little more 'aid'


duskerhu


Mar 23, 2003, 10:15 PM
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Uh, correct me if I'm wrong here, but, isn't aid climbing in and of itself "cheating" so to speak??? I mean, as long as you're using gear for upward advancement I think you'd be in the realm of aid climbing, right?

I think cheating in aid would be more like pulling a few "Free" moves when you can instead of pulling on gear...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

duskerhu


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Mar 23, 2003, 10:32 PM
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In reply to:
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong here, but, isn't aid climbing in and of itself "cheating" so to speak??? I mean, as long as you're using gear for upward advancement I think you'd be in the realm of aid climbing, right?

I think cheating in aid would be more like pulling a few "Free" moves when you can instead of pulling on gear...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

duskerhu

Nah mate you`d be doing a Mixed climb then.

...Phil...


northerntouch


Mar 23, 2003, 10:38 PM
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I thought a mixed climb was rock and ice.... not to start a argument.


apollodorus


Mar 23, 2003, 10:50 PM
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Aid climbers have used many cheat devices, including throwing a rope (c.f., first ascent of the Lost Arrow Spire; later, Harding, Pratt Chouinard on the South face of Mt. Watkins; etc.). Nothing is cheating until you drill, and then it's Justified Cheating.

If that Batman faggot would actually come to the Valley, and work his magic, he'd be a stud. But, he sits in his Hollywood Sound Stage, surrounded by the Special Effectists, sipping Perrier water and waiting for the producers to say, "WE'VE GOT THE FUNDING FOR A SEQUEL!!!"

I have yet to see his "stuff" (or James Bond's bolt gun from Diamonds are Forever) used for any useful, practicable purpose whatsoever.


The Lovetron was specifically invented (?) for use on Scorched Earth. It saved about five rivets. And it was a COOL move. Just ask PTPP. He was the one who stuck the hook, got up there, and then saw that he'd stuck the WRONG edge; the one he was one was worthless, the one right next to it was Way Bomber.

The Lovetron was/is/will be a 12'/18' aluminum tent pole with a steering wire. You use 1/2" webbing with tied loops every few feet taped to the 'Tron so you can go up. It's like a big ol' aider taped to a stick. High wind not advised.


nikegirl


Mar 23, 2003, 11:02 PM
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wow...what am i doin in here???


and? I read the whole thread*

funny stuff*


passthepitonspete


Mar 23, 2003, 11:33 PM
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What are you doin' here? Well, you never know - Dr. Piton just might have room on his ledge for a shagadelic hottie. If one happened to have wandered there by accident.

"WRONG" edge you say, Tom - "worthless?!" Pshaw.

Dude, it might have been crumbling, but at least it held while I aided up the Lovetron. [I nearly shat myself when I saw what the hook was hanging on, however. Sheesh]

As for James Bond's bolt gun - you didn't see where it went? Sly Stallone used it in Cliffhanger.


duskerhu


Mar 24, 2003, 12:59 AM
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ummmm, I see no actual argument here... Just some good natured philosiphising.

I thought Mixed Climbing WAS a form of Aid Climbing???

duskerhu


mesomorf


Mar 24, 2003, 5:18 AM
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PTPP,

Grossman told me himself that they used hooks taped to hammers on the FA of Jolly Roger. This stymied later, less creative ascentionists, who added bolts.

I wonder how you passed those sections?


bighigaz


Mar 24, 2003, 6:47 AM
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In reply to:
If that Batman faggot would actually come to the Valley, and work his magic, he'd be a stud. But, he sits in his Hollywood Sound Stage, surrounded by the Special Effectists, sipping Perrier water and waiting for the producers to say, "WE'VE GOT THE FUNDING FOR A SEQUEL!!!"

Apollo, who exactly are you refering to?

--And did you say PTPP was using a lovetron?! I thought he didn't do that, [hmph!]... idolizing climbers everywhere are starting to worry... :wink:


passthepitonspete


Mar 24, 2003, 9:22 AM
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Meso, you can click here to read about the raddest hook move I ever made, which precisely answers your question about how I climbed Jolly Roger.

It is a relief to know that I and Grossman are on the same page.


beyond_gravity


Mar 24, 2003, 9:51 AM
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In reply to:
ummmm, I see no actual argument here... Just some good natured philosiphising.

I thought Mixed Climbing WAS a form of Aid Climbing???

duskerhu


Call it whatever you want, no mixed climber is going to care if you call them an aid climber.

On the other hand, no mixed climber will ever call what there doing aid climbing. The biggest pump your ever going to get is on a mixed route.


Of course, i'm talking about mixed rock and ice.


Bolt and Gear routes are also refered to as mixed routes, as are free/aid routes. But when you talk about the sport of mixed climbing, it's on rock and ice.


flamer


Mar 24, 2003, 12:27 PM
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Ok I have a challenge to make! For all you people that think AID climbing is "cheating", I would like you to free(with the exsisting gear) a few aid lines. How about you start with a couple of the routes mentioned in this post?? Maybe...Jolly Roger? That would be an excellent WARMUP for your next project...Scorched Earth!
Main Point being...If you don't aid you (probably) don't get it! The over lying ethic is...Free it if you can!!
Also I don't think what he's doing is cheating. Cheating would be using a cheat stick to Bypass hard moves. The person pictured here is apparently just lacking in reach! I've been on routes where I was topstepped to the hilt and still 6"s shy of the next rivet or whatever! So sometimes you've just gotta do what you've gotta do!
josh


passthepitonspete


Mar 24, 2003, 3:43 PM
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This is one of my rare moments of seriousness. So I'll explain the joke to you, too.

He's definitely cheating. Even in aid climbing there are stylistic considerations.

The reason he is cheating is because he is clipping a pre-existing fixed anchor. He has extended his reach with the hammer. What you have to consider is, "what did the first ascensionist do?"

The cheating photo on page 1 is from Tempest, a PDH/DFU route put up by Steve Gerberding, and whose third ascent was made not too long ago by RC.com's own Bruce Bindner, who is brutusofwyde. For all I know this photo is from Bruce's ascent - I really don't know.

Gerberding is a very tall b*tchin' bad-*ss m*therf*cker, which is actually the sweetest and kindest words I could speak of him.

You can click this photo of Steve to learn more:

http://home.pacbell.net/takasper/shimwhite.gifhttp://www.rockclimbing.com/...mp.cgi?Detailed=8779

Steve is also an expert at top-stepping, and is notorious for drilling reachy rivet ladders on his routes like the one you see buddy cheating on.

When I climbed Reticent Wall, I had to cheat on one of Steve's rivet ladders, too, because I did not have the skill and the reach to make the clips. And I'm not the first to follow Steve who had to do it! [I was just smart enough not to let anyone take my picture {wink} ] Now that I'm using Russian Aiders, I look forward to a future ascent of Tempest, to where I can [hopefully!] make the clips without using a cheat stick!

Paradoxically however, sometimes using a cheat stick isn't actually cheating!

This is certainly the case during our recent ascent of Scorched Earth, where a long section of blank rock is bypassed by using a hook on top of a Lovetron. What made this particularly frightening was that I hooked the wrong edge! Imagine my terror when after aiding all the way up the sling-with-knotted-loops hanging from my Lovetron, I found the edge I hooked to be a crumbling piece of choss! [The pitch was already rated A4+, so one wonders how this mistake would affect the rating! Sheesh]

If you follow the link above to my ascent of Jolly Roger, you'll see where I pulled a similar stunt, using a hook on top of my hammer. I get sweaty hands thinking about it. If I had blown that hook move, I'd have been cleaved in half by the pinnacle which licked greedy lips beneath me. Now I verily assumed that I had cheated, but Meso above says that Grossman told him he did the same in a few places. But cheating or not, it was the raddest hook move I've ever made!

Now, never for a second would I sit here and publically [sic] admit that I have been known to cheat from time to time by using my hammer and duct tape as a cheat stick to clip a pre-existing fixed anchor like a bolt, rivet or head - times when I'm lazy or tired or scared. Neither would I suggest, imply, or otherwise [HINT] that a pair of wired stoppers girth-hitched together can make an excellent cheat stick. Never for a moment would I tell you that such things are absolutely true.

And I'd never bloody let anyone take my frickin' picture doin' it, either.

Sheesh.

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