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twrock
Mar 26, 2003, 1:19 AM
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Having never actually seen a deployed rainfly and thinking of making a fly for my ledge, I have a question.
Are commercial rainflys designed to be symmetrical, or are they perpendicular on the wall side with the front side slanting back to the attachment point? I'm guessing having the wall side designed to be perpendicular is better since the ledge is more often set up this way.
Thanks.
(And yes, I am aware there are other ways to rig a rainfly, but I am most interested in the "standard" shape of commercial flys.)
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passthepitonspete
Mar 26, 2003, 4:37 AM
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I think that trying to make an asymmetrical rainfly, the way the commercial manufacturers make them, would be beyond the scope of the problem. Unless of course you have access to all the stuff you need, and are pretty darn handy with a sewing machine.
You'll need to seal the seams, and that could take about twelve hours and eight tubes of Seam Grip - honestly! - unless you can do it properly.
An easy way to make a ledge fly is to get a plastic tarp - a BIG plastic tarp that will more than handily surround your ledge, with lots left over. Take a big honkin' wired stopper with soft curves and edges and push it up on the inside of the fly from beneath, so the wire clip-in loop faces downwards. This is what you hang your ledge from on the inside.
On the outside and with the fly scrunched round the stopper, you wrap a klemheist knot round the stopper cable, and this is what you, your partner, your fly, and your ledge are all hanging from, along with your ghetto blaster and coffee pot.
[Don't laugh - those two items were indispensible when I sat out the storm on Lunar Eclipse. Click the link for a cool picture of me up there in the storm, and the story behind it.]
Just make sure you have your lead rope running down, and back up under the fly as a redundant backup, which is what Climbing Mag forgot to show on their recent Tech Tip. I spotted the mistake immediately, Mike had missed it, and Jonathan said "oops."
Incidentally, in the BWT from Climbing Mag post linked above, you should read about the two Quebecoises who died when they did not set up their portaledge fly correctly! BE CAREFUL. Take the opportunity to learn from the deaths of others so it doesn't happen to you.
RumoUr has it that Climbing Mag has hired a Wall Doctor for their next series of Tech Tips, so there won't be too many mistakes, except the one the illustrator wouldn't change in the next one when he was asked to do so because it was a major pain, and we decided we could live with it. {shrug}
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apollodorus
Mar 26, 2003, 5:06 AM
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You can get plastic tape that you sew into the seams, and then heat seal with an ordinary clothes iron. You might have to use a teflon barrier to keep from scorching the fabric, but you can get this where you get the sealing tape.
Before you worry about making an asymmetric fly, you should think about using different colored, and even different weight fabric for the side against the wall. And maybe even a third color for the two side panels. When you have to set it up on a wall, this could help alot. I watched a certain person fumble around a bit trying to get his fly oriented properly, with the It's Already Raining mild panic setting in.
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passthepitonspete
Mar 26, 2003, 5:30 AM
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I resemble that comment!
Should we show them the picture of you in your nearly-collapsed home-made ledge?
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twrock
Mar 26, 2003, 5:45 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply, Pete. I just wanted to be sure on the symmetrical/asymmetrical question; I see the answer there in the first paragraph. (But I don't know why you consider it to be "beyond the scope of the problem;" since I bothered to ask, of course I consider it to be within the scope of the problem.)
Another option is to just plop down the $200 for a Metolius single ledge rainfly since my ledge has the same dimensions. But I'm cheap, I actually enjoy making stuff, and I'd rather save my money for other stuff I can't make.
I considered the tarp option back when I made the ledge three years ago, but I don't particularly like it. I live in a land of cheap labor and easy materials availability. There are shops all around me that have the double-coated cloth and can "weld" seams in it; I just need to draw it up (or, yes, I could sew it myself and take the time to seal it). I can fairly easily have someone duplicate the Metolius clip-in "plate" if I just draw it up as well (or make it myself in some spare time). But who knows, I just might skip the whole thing and stick with my bivy sack only. Options, oh so many options!
And, agreed, backups are critical in wall systems, but I can certainly live without coffee and a ghetto blaster. Of course YMMV.
Tom, good ideas! I'll throw them in the hopper.
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climbhigher
Mar 26, 2003, 7:34 PM
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Just borrow an A5 rainfly and duplicate it and draw up the pattern. That's what my friend did. He has a pirate (exact duplication of an a5 double ledge and rainfly) A5 ledge. He gave me the pattern for the rainfly and the drawings and exact mesurements for the ledge. He had a machinist do the cornors for him at 25.00 dollars a piece. I wouldn't feel right to give you the patterns he gave me. But with a caliberated measuring tool you could make up some diagrams for the ledge and measure out the rainfly and do the patterns for the rainfly. You would have to use an industrail sewing machine to make it. Since North Face owns A5 now, i wouldn't feel bad at all copying there ledges. CHEERS, Chris. On second thought i would sell you my rainfly for 200.00 dollars.
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twrock
Mar 27, 2003, 12:09 PM
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Borrow a ledge fly to copy? That'd be great, but it's not going to happen where I live. I only know of one person with a ledge (Black Diamond), and he doesn't have a fly. (I already have a portaledge that I made a few years ago, but I will put in a plug for Jeff's Krustyledge for those DIY'ers who might not have seen it yet: How to build a Krustyledge.)
Actually I already made the drawings, and they turned out to be quite simple. An asymmetric shape makes it easier to design (if you remember any of the stuff you learned in geometry class). And contrary to what some might think, it only requires one exposed seam running from the clip-in point to under the ledge, so even if you have to sew it instead of getting someone to weld it, it wouldnt' be too bad to seam seal. All other "seams" are under the ledge or are a result of the strips of material to protect against abrasion (which can also be one continuous piece of material if designed correctly). Granted that this would be a very simply fly with no window or venting system, but I don't think even those additions would be out of the question (particularly the vent).
Now that I drew it up and have a better sense of what would be involved, I'm even more motivated to make it. Hmm..., when's my next free weekend?
[edit] Follow-up post:
Ok, I finished the portaledge rainfly. Here's a link to some pics and a little info. Happy climbing. DIY portaledge fly
(This post was edited by twrock on Aug 16, 2009, 2:31 PM)
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krustyklimber
Apr 22, 2003, 11:14 PM
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Wow Tworock!!!
That is an awesome deal you got going... I love the single seam running down the front.
That still beats the Pika fly REI was selling for $99 a while back!
Thanks for the plug for my article, it goes unnoticed by many who could use it. Maybe the guys running this site could have a feature article each month... pointing poeple to the great information so many of us have volunteered to share might help a lot of them.
Jeff http://pages.prodigy.net/.../emoticons/wave1.gif
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copperhead
Apr 23, 2003, 1:38 AM
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Not that any of us can afford it but... this is the schist...
http://www.ankerclimbingequipment.com/cabana.shtml
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apollodorus
Apr 23, 2003, 3:35 AM
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How wide was the fabric you used? I can't find anything wider than about 5 feet (1.5 m) here in California. I've even gone to a sail maker (like, 50 foot high sails), and he has to use stuff about that wide.
I'm just curious, not really interested in getting something wider than that. My rainfly is going to have an Ultrex (like Gore-Tex) front, with plain coated packcloth sides and beefy packcloth back. I want to use different colors for the front, sides and back, too. So, I will have lots of seams to seal with my magic, two-part rubbery urethane stuff.
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