|
flying_dutchman
Mar 26, 2003, 6:41 AM
Post #26 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 20, 2002
Posts: 708
|
allright, getting off topic, er, back to the original topic,
i have only been leading trad for a little while and i started my rack with a set of nuts, learned to place em and then started to collect cams after playing around with my buddy's gear to see what felt good. I havn't regretted any of those decisions yet. I learned how to lead sport first and so i had a bunch of draws before i started to get the other hardware.
|
|
|
|
|
danskiz
Mar 26, 2003, 8:01 AM
Post #27 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 62
|
When I started leading, I had both active and passive pro, but always tried to place passive first. Over the years I have realized that this in not really the best way to go. Anymore I place what ever will be the safest placement for the situation, sometimes its passive, some times its a cam, but I realized I was spending too much time trying to place a nut (getting pumped out in the meantime) where a cam would have been a better placement. Anymore I only carry two of my hexes, not because the rest of them are any less secure, but because I rarely placed them. I found that my nuts almost always fit just as well into a placement that would take a small hex, but were more versitle. There are placements where hexes are the best option, but I found that if a nut wouldn't work, a cam usually will in that placement, and overall cams have a better range than hexes. Now I can look at a climb from the ground and have a good idea of what gear I will need, and adjust my rack accordingly. If for some reason I can't tell my standard "general pro" rack consists of the following;
6AN, 7AN, and 8AN metiolus curve nuts
#3-13 BD stoppers (ocassionally complimented by midrange curve nuts)
#7, and 8 metiolus curve hexes(I originally had BD Hexes, but I think these are more versitle)
1 each pink, red, and brown tricams
1 each black, blue, green, yellow and orange Aliens
1 each green and red camalots (ocassionally gold and blue also)
For pro that is about all I carry anymore, obviously it could be more or less depending on the route but that is my general rack. When I first started leading I carried all that plus a full set of BD hexes, and doubles on some of the tricams. Over the years I have trimmed down what I rarely use, mainly because of weight. As I get on harder climbs I want that rack to weigh as little as possible. Sure, hexes are much lighter than cams, but not near as versitle.
In reply to: ricardol wrote .. in my limited experience -- a cam when placed for a downward pull (stem pointing down) -- will rotate when pulled from above ... when i learned to place cams i was told to avoid placements where the cams can rotate .. the rotation could change the placement and cause the cam to expand onto a large location in the crack --
This is when you need to put a longer draw on the piece, you want to carry some draws that have 2ft slings, and either double or triple them for easier racking. I also carry a four foot sling for when I really need to extend a piece. As a matter of fact, I don't even carry regular quickdraws anymore. All my draws are 2 ft slings tripled, again more versitle. A regular quickdraw is only good as a quickdraw, you can take the biners off of them in you need to, but where do you put the sewn link. A 2 ft sling tripled is about the same length, and weight as a regular quickdraw, but if you need extra biners you take them and put the sling over your shoulder, or if you need an extra sling just rack the two biners. Also you can use it tripled, or very quickly extend it if needed. If you just use regular quickdraws, the first time you get on a route that wanders around, you'll hate yourself for not being able to extend pieces when rope drag kicks in and pieces start popping. If a route really wanders double ropes are the best way to go. I better quit, I aint writing a book. :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Mar 26, 2003, 8:35 AM
Post #28 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
back on topic then ...
about draws ..
i used to have quickdraws in my trad rack .. but recently i replaced them all with sewn slings (shoulder length) ... the reason for it was that sewn slings absorb more of the rope movement and therefore the chance of a placement moving outt of place is reduced (i think there was an accident recently where the accident investigation determined that a cam that was slung with a quickdraw walked -- they guessed that the quickdraw did little to absorb the rope movement due to the fact that the dogbone is stiff)
... my rack now has
10 shoulder length sewn slings
4 double length slings
2 quickdraws
14 wiregate carabiners
14 straight gate carabiners
-- i kept 2 quickdraws because sometimes its best to have a short stiff draw (clipping a bolt -- or some fixed pro)
this number of draws is working pretty well for me so far -- i've only come close to running out of draws once -- on the first pitch of after six .. i was really sewing it up! ..
Locking biners
i carry 5 small locking biners from BD -- 3 medium pear locking biners -- 4 large locking biners ...
this is more than enough to setup 2 belay stations (multipitch) .. and to be used when belaying .. the large locking biners i also use to rack loose biners on my gear loops.
-----------------------------------------------
.. as far as cost -- i think it depends on wether you are climbing with someone that can fill in the gaps of your rack, or not .. i chose to have a complete rack (meaning that we could climb alot of moderate multipitch with my rack alone) -- and have spent well over $1000 if we count everything (including rope, gear sling, etc) ..
... i looked at it this way -- once i decided that i wanted to lead trad, money was a secondary objective, since my life is going to depend on this gear, its silly to save $100 to later regret it when you have a broken ankle, or worse..
-- ricardo
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Mar 26, 2003, 8:38 AM
Post #29 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Important to note, although it is thoroughly off topic:
A cam should never be considered multidirectional without testing for it first. I made the mistake of doing so, fell, and nearly hit the ground after the cam popped.
To the topic at hand: Self taught is ridiculously darwanian process. If you go wrong, you will probably die. Its a wonder I'm still alive. It is far safer to attach yourself to a solid trad leader who can and will teach you what you need to know. For such an exercise, all you need is you, and potentially a harness, pair of shoes, etc. If you insist on getting gear, go with a set of nuts, you pick the brand and the carabiners to go with it. Wait on cams until you can identify a good cam placement and what goes well with your climbing style. If you tend to plug and go without checking yourself first, BD camalots may be better for their greater individual ranges. If you are more thoughtful, go with WC Tech friends or Metolius Power Cams. And if you really want to cut costs, go with Rock Empire, Acme, or Trango Cams. I've been leading trad for 2 years now and on thursday I'm going to buy my first cam, one that exceeds my hex range so that I can more safely climb off-widths. I have previously used my various partners' cams. You don't need technology to be a better climber. It just makes getting there easier.
|
|
|
|
|
apollodorus
Mar 26, 2003, 11:16 AM
Post #30 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157
|
One word for your first cam: GOLD CAMALOT.
That thing is a great size. It's right there with the #8 hex, which I found most useful, back when there weren't cams. Actually, the gold camalot is better, a little smaller size. I think I kept that #8 hex close because I feared wider stuff . . . . .
I can't improve on the gear selections below, unless I do a four-piece rack:
Gold Camalot. #6 BD stopper. #8 BD stopper. (This next is based on your specific area: #4 stopper, or Blue Camalot).
|
|
|
|
|
punk
Mar 26, 2003, 1:49 PM
Post #31 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442
|
In reply to: I think you're losing focus again.
So lets look at this
In reply to: Hello folks, I have searched this forum for advice on buying beginners trad gear. I couldn't find any. I am a sport climber and now I want to try trad climbing. I want to learn trad climbing (placing the gear, anchor tips ...). I am from Chicago and most people that I met here are into sport and bouldering. Anyways, I decided to buy the gear first and try to learn from placing them in door gyms (I will not be climbing on them) just to know how to place gear. So can you guys suggest the basic set (not a whole lot) of trad gear to start with. I read in one of these forums and thinking about going with passive gear. Any advice to a beginner is greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
[*:14598dca84]carack jumaring Definitly a beginner techniqe :roll:
[*:14598dca84]climbing fast Definitly recommended to a beginner :roll:
[*:14598dca84]Cam set Definitly the basic set :roll:
Now who is losing FOCUS!!!??? :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
davidji
Mar 27, 2003, 4:57 PM
Post #32 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1776
|
In reply to: In reply to: I think you're losing focus again. So lets look at this In reply to: Hello folks, I have searched this forum for advice on buying beginners trad gear. I couldn't find any. I am a sport climber and now I want to try trad climbing. I want to learn trad climbing (placing the gear, anchor tips ...). I am from Chicago and most people that I met here are into sport and bouldering. Anyways, I decided to buy the gear first and try to learn from placing them in door gyms (I will not be climbing on them) just to know how to place gear. So can you guys suggest the basic set (not a whole lot) of trad gear to start with. I read in one of these forums and thinking about going with passive gear. Any advice to a beginner is greatly appreciated. Thank you all.
[*:c7763ff843]carack jumaring Definitly a beginner techniqe :roll:
[*:c7763ff843]climbing fast Definitly recommended to a beginner :roll:
[*:c7763ff843]Cam set Definitly the basic set :roll:
Now who is losing FOCUS!!!??? :roll:
All taken out of context. Go back and read the actual thread and read what remarks are in response to what. This mostly erupted after I said
In reply to: BTW, there are places where passive is more bomber, but there are also places where active is more bomber.
Since you brought up RAMs initial question, I stand by the answer I gave RAM:
In reply to: If you take a class, and then go out with a mentor a few times, you'll have a better idea what gear you like before you buy.
David
|
|
|
|
|
ram
Mar 27, 2003, 7:02 PM
Post #33 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 19, 2003
Posts: 29
|
I think you both have very good points for a beginner trad climber,
1. Try to take a class, if not, go climbing with an experienced trad climber.
2. When it comes to gear, going with passive gear is safer (because of the response from that piece is quicker). After gaining few months of trad climbing experience, trying out cam should be fine.
3. As I (any) would gain trad climbing experience, then I (they) can slowly buy different pieces of gear. So I wouldn't rush into buying all active/passive gear at once. :)
One thing I will remember is, DON'T PLACE THE PRO IN A HURRY (so that I can climb further), NO MATTER HOW ADVANCE THE GEAR(S) CAN GET.
Thank you all.
Ram 8)
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Mar 27, 2003, 7:33 PM
Post #34 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
ram: thank you for bringing the thread back on track ..
.. what do you plan on carrying up a route for protecting locations that are bigger than the bigger nut? - (hexes come to mind) ..
.. recently i was on after six (5.7 in the valley) .. on the 4th pitch i was about 10' right and 5' above my last piece .. (about 20' above a ledge) .. and finally reached a flake that was about 3.5" wide .. i was VERY glad to be carrying a 3.5 camalot that protected it perfectly ..
i need to have someone teach me how to protect something that large with a hex --
-- ricardo
|
|
|
|
|
crackbaby
Mar 27, 2003, 8:07 PM
Post #35 of 35
(2345 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2001
Posts: 18
|
Ok, so you're starting trad.
Here's what I suggest. Buy biners and slings. You need those. You also need nuts. Black diamond is great, but somewhat expensive. Climb Max has a European brand (Cassin), and Kong. They are inexpensive, but quality. I would suggest looking at a gear guide and see what type of nuts work best in each type of crack. So, start off with nuts, and learn to place them well. And you can also buy hexes and a few camp tri-cams. You have to learn to place them well. Look at all the people who have cams fail. THey think cams are these magic pieces. Plug and go. WHile they are easy to place, they must be placed well, or failure and falling is the result. Rock Empire are fine, and a great starting place. Move on to Black Diamond, or Metolius, or whatever. Try out your friends' stuff first and then see what you like. You have to do some research here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
