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straightedgeteen


Mar 28, 2003, 1:57 PM
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Hey my partner has all the gear and now im starting to buy gear and i wanna get a full rack for when i go off to college. is there any one that can help me out? even links would be appreated


olddude


Mar 28, 2003, 2:09 PM
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Try the link for obtaining as good trad rack.
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/rockcraft/Trad/rockcraft-trad-gear.html

p.s. per one of your previous posts, chose a school that will enhance your career. You can climb all your life but you may have only limited opportunity to screw-up college.


dig_scott


Mar 28, 2003, 8:56 PM
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becareful of the rack.. if you dont have a lot of money you will really wish you didnt know what trad was.


smithclimber


Mar 28, 2003, 9:24 PM
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Much of my thoughts on a rack can be found in this link:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=303538&highlight=#303538

My post is the very long winded one that you see first by "Smithclimber".

The second "Smithclimber" post is not by me, but by someone posing as me.

If you have any questions after reading my post, feel free to PM me and I'll help you out.

Good luck.

Cheers, Wes


flying_dutchman


Mar 28, 2003, 9:52 PM
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why get a rack if you don't need one? Once started, theres no turning back... Seems that you got a most excellent climbing buddy already.


arlen


Mar 28, 2003, 10:41 PM
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Some would recommend cheaper gear for starters, for good reasons. But If you're going to climb with different people who have more experience (a good idea), you may want to have pro that they won't irrationally fear. Most people I climb with are comfortable with Robot cams, but others only feel safe with the Camalots under them. So assuming you'll often be supplementing a partner's rack, I'd suggest as a core rack:

:arrow: Stoppers 3-13 or equivalent Rocks or Wallnuts
:arrow: 3 Hexes above that

:arrow: Yellow Alien
:arrow: Camalots .75, 1, 2

:arrow: About 20 carabiners & a couple lockers
:arrow: About 8 slings of various sizes
:arrow: Cordalette or Web-o-lette

That'll even take care of short trad climbs. Some bigger cams may be handy--I use Forged Friends in the larger sizes but I get laughed at a lot for them. :? In any case, you'll soon know which sizes to add or double up on.


dangermonkey


Mar 28, 2003, 11:47 PM
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Where are you climbing? A rack can reflect the type of climbs as well as the places you climb.


dangermonkey


Mar 28, 2003, 11:48 PM
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Where are you climbing? A rack can reflect the type of climbs as well as the places you climb.


dirtineye


Mar 29, 2003, 10:56 AM
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Get some tricams. They are magic. Tricams will fit where nothing else will, and if you set one wrong, you will know wiht a little test pull. Try Zero friends instead of an alien, or the 00 friend (take a look at em, it sounds odd, but the 00 technical friend is smaller than some of the new Zero friends, nad hold 10 kN). What the guy said about the nuts and a few hexes is bomber. You might wnat some metoleus astro nuts on the small end eventually, as they have no swedge and the wire will fit through tunnels well, allowing you to trap a perfect nut.

Cam choice is a pain, look over your pal's good rack and see what you like on it. Out of Friends, Zero Friends, Camelots and metoleus tcus, I'd have to say I like the one that fits the best. Camelots are heavy though.

Don't be afraid to get some larger gear, cause sometimes you just have to have a big tricam or cam. DOn't be afraid to have some overlapping sizes, cause you will come to sections of a climb that want several pieces that are all about the same size.

The most important thing is, make sure your placement is good for the piece you are trying to get in it. DOn't use a cam when a nut is better, and vice versa. Passive pro is cheaper and works great if you learn how to use it.


arp30


Mar 29, 2003, 12:02 PM
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I would recommend what most of the other climbers are claiming: Start out small with some passive gear like nuts and hexes, about 20 or so biners, some draws and then work up to some came. With cams start off small with like a .75, 1, and 2 and then build on either end of that. That should be a good start. Just be careful when you're buying your pro because it adds up SO fast. Hope this helps out. Climb on.


simzboardr


Mar 31, 2003, 4:28 PM
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Hey Phil, what you dont' think my rack is good enough...not pretty enough for you...sheeeshhh :roll:

Haa bout time you start buyin and stop mouchin

Nose all the way


freudian


Mar 31, 2003, 5:24 PM
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My local crag is in Welsford, New Brunswick, Canada.

This is what most climbers recommend for a good trad rack for Welsford, and of course for many other granite crags:

Cams:

1 (Blue) Alien --- optional, mostly for aid
1 (Green) Alien
2 (Yellow) Aliens
1 (Red) Alien --- overlaps with 0.50 camalot size
1 (0.50) Camalot
2 (0.75) Camalots
2 (1.00) Camalots
2 (2.00) Camalots
1 (3.00) Camalot --- optional, if you find it would be usefull, get one.

TriCams (Camp):

0.50 Pink
1.00 Red
1.50 Brown

Nuts:

Omega Pacific -- 2 sets of #3 through #13 (#1,#2 are weak)
-- or --
Black Diamond -- 2 sets of stoppers, maybe leave out the smallest 1

Hexs:

I can't make any recommendations there, but you might wanna buy some larger ones if you feel your local crag would protect well with these.

FREUDIAN
http://freudian.homeip.net/


mojorisin


Apr 3, 2003, 3:12 PM
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Just remember to get back ups for your spares.


Partner pbcowboy77


Apr 8, 2003, 11:44 PM
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http://www.shorelinemtn.com/...products.asp?dept=13


pico23


Apr 9, 2003, 12:54 AM
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Sorry to take up so much bandwidth with the qoutes but HOLY SHIT what a rack. Thats nearly a aid rack. I love gear and carry a big rack myself but you are carrying nearly 2 sets of cams, plus tri cams and two sets of nuts. On the other hand if you have the cash I can't see the reason to not be well protected. My only addition would be instead of doubling up on cams get a full set of the smaller tri cams (the big ones are unstable) and the mid size hexes (say BD 5-9, although I understand the newer hexes are much better). I'd also recommend scaling back the nuts to 1.5 sets. I carry I full set of BD 3-13 and a second set of 4-9. This covers the smaller pro where you will most likely place more nuts.

The truth is there is no right rack for everyone. You might hate hexes and tri cams (i hate hexes, live tris) or you might not trust cams that much. In those cases you need to either learn to like em or build your rack around what you trust. Even if you love every piece of gear on the market and are profient at placing them you then need to buy based on where you will climb most of the time. Buying a rack for indian Creek isn't going to do you any good when you climb every weekend in the Gunks.




In reply to:
My local crag is in Welsford, New Brunswick, Canada.

This is what most climbers recommend for a good trad rack for Welsford, and of course for many other granite crags:

Cams:

1 (Blue) Alien --- optional, mostly for aid
1 (Green) Alien
2 (Yellow) Aliens
1 (Red) Alien --- overlaps with 0.50 camalot size
1 (0.50) Camalot
2 (0.75) Camalots
2 (1.00) Camalots
2 (2.00) Camalots
1 (3.00) Camalot --- optional, if you find it would be usefull, get one.

TriCams (Camp):

0.50 Pink
1.00 Red
1.50 Brown

Nuts:

Omega Pacific -- 2 sets of #3 through #13 (#1,#2 are weak)
-- or --
Black Diamond -- 2 sets of stoppers, maybe leave out the smallest 1

Hexs:

I can't make any recommendations there,


texplorer


Apr 15, 2003, 6:10 PM
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I found college to have quite a few large racks. Sometimes they are just too much work to attain.


petsfed


Apr 15, 2003, 6:54 PM
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In reply to:
I found college to have quite a few large racks. Sometimes they are just too much work to attain.

Too true. And sometimes, you're left wondering why you struggled so much for them.

To the task at hand:

You guys are going to laugh at me, but I have a set of hexes on cord and a set of WC Rocks. And a #4 camalot I picked up for offwidths.

That's all.

And what's more, it takes about the same amount of time to get a bomber placement with my passive stuff as my active stuff. Anything within that range, be it nuts, cams, tri-cams, brocolli, whatever will be about what you need for most any starting-to-lead climb. I would say that cams are a big waste of money if you're not leaving the ground or top roping a lot because you can spend a lot of time on your placements (it takes practice to get good with passive stuff) but leading, I'd say Camalots .75 to 3.5 (or an equivalent but cheaper cam like the WC tech friends or the Metolius power cams) and Aliens or TCUs below that. Be warned, the cheaper the cam, the more the walk, generally. Trango Flex cams are walkin' fools. Good attention to placement and you won't have a problem.

As for slings, I have six shoulder length, 4 tied doubles and a pair of cordolettes. 2 crabs to every sling, plus six locking crabs.

In my opinion, I have too many shoulder length slings and should fill in with regular quickdraws. Pick what's light and strong for trad draws. Don't waste your time on "Alpine Draws" as you end up paying shipping and handling on a shoulder length sling and 2 crabs you could get at your local gear shop. Package deal discount dissappears.

I use tied slings on the doubles because those are also my leaver slings. Big enough to tie around anything I might need and cheap as sin.

As far as crabs, light and strong again. Sure steel lockers can hold 40+ kN, but they weigh half a pound a peice. Keylock noses sure are neat and I want to get more so I can rack on them, but I don't need them and neither do you. Wiregates rock your world ("roXors your boXors" I believe is the proper net phrase for "1337 haXors"). Everybody but BD sells them for cheaper than regular gate biners - Its the truth. Ovals are good to rack on. Wire ovals are better. Keylock (BD Positrons and Petzl Spirits are the most visible. Kong also makes them) are the best. But they ain't cheap.

You said you're going to college soon? Better be prepared to do your laundry in your sink and make a clothesline from that cordolette and pray your roommate doesn't mind (read is too drunk or too busy screwing elsewhere to care) as you are going to be piss poor. The eat or go climbing dillemma will cease to be a philosophical dilemma.


pico23


Apr 15, 2003, 8:07 PM
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[quote="petsfed"]
In reply to:
Be warned, the cheaper the cam, the more the walk, generally. Trango Flex cams are walkin' fools. Good attention to placement and you won't have a problem.

As for slings, I have six shoulder length, 4 tied doubles and a pair of cordolettes. 2 crabs to every sling, plus six locking crabs.

In my opinion, I have too many shoulder length slings and should fill in with regular quickdraws. Pick what's light and strong for trad draws. Don't waste your time on "Alpine Draws" as you end up paying shipping and handling on a shoulder length sling and 2 crabs you could get at your local gear shop. Package deal discount dissappears.

I use tied slings on the doubles because those are also my leaver slings. Big enough to tie around anything I might need and cheap as sin.

As far as crabs, light and strong again. Wiregates rock your world
You said you're going to college soon? The eat or go climbing dillemma will cease to be a philosophical dilemma.

You must climb some straight routes or routes with a fair amount of bolts cause if the route traverses at all short draws are worthless. I'd prefer to fall 4 extra feet and be caught then fall 20 extra feet because my gear walked or fell out. How do you build a belay on multipitch with how little gear you carry?

As far as cams. Totally not true. Flexcams do walk in verticals but are awesome in horizontals. On the other hand I've placed flexcams where camalots just wouldn't go in verticals. Once again a long runner will reduce walking. It's not the cost of the cam that determines walking but rather the width of the cam and spacing of the lobes. Flexcams are almost like a TCU with the narrow middle lobes.

Biners?? Wiregates are the shitola. The most important thing on a biner is it staying shut on impact. Wires stay shut more then solid gates and thus are stronger. Solid gates are antiquated technology. I like Omega biners. Cheap, superlight and superstrong. The Doval and JC wires make a good gear rope end draw combo. Add that witha 12mm spectra sling and you've saved some serious weight. But thats at a cost. spectra is expensive compared to nylon but worth the cost if you climb alpine or ice because it won't hold water or freeze up like nylon. Thats actually why I switched to spectra. Go with the 12mm runners to really cut weight and bulk vs. the thicker width which aren't any stronger and cost the same but weigh more. Yates and DMM make the thinner models and often can be found for $4 a runner.

Protection: Lots of tricams .5-3 and doubles of 1-2, 1.5 sets of nuts, I hate hexes and having a good selection of tricams can partially elimante the need for hexes but learning how to use them can be beneficial expecially in the long run when you can cut rack weight and cost down by only having one set of cams.


timstich


Apr 15, 2003, 8:40 PM
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I have a pretty huge rack now. I even have three number 4 Camelots. I bought three used and found one, which I promptly gave to my climbing partner and got some small Metolius three cams out of it that he hated. So I'm done with collecting gear more or less. All I want to do now is learn how to select what I need for the climb and leave the rest on the ground! That stuff is heavy. My pack kills me to lug around.

I love you minimalist guys who use hexes on lead. That kicks butt! I have several hexes myself, but I prefer to set them at the anchor after I have sewed up the climb with my cams. I'm enjoying nut craft as well, but my second has an easier time cleaning in general if I place cams instead.


petsfed


Apr 15, 2003, 8:49 PM
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That's what the cordolettes are for. On top of that, all of my hexes are old school (designed to be slung with webbing) so I don't need as long of slings on them to keep them from walking. And to be sure, I do climb fairly straight routes. Splitters and offwidths. The thing is, even on meadering pitches, I only use long slings when the route changes direction. More often than not, I don't fall, so protection is moot anyway, but I would much rather not have the sling hanging halfway down to my next peice. I can (and often do) sew things up simply for fun, and honestly, I don't use longs slings unless I have to. Stylistic differences perhaps? On more than one occasion, the choice has been between a wee bit of rope drag, or decking if I fell. You can guess which I chose. Also, I run stuff out. It just seems natural to me to place pro before a move that looks hard, rather than wasting energy putting in a nut that will not get used. In a 100' pitch, I might put in 10 peices. I'll use every sling I have, but I still have the 2 cordolettes. And a good 2/3 of those peices have way more sling than they need. More quickdraws would be the answer. I guess what I meant was that I have a poor balance of shoulder length slings to quickdraws. I'd like to have 6-10 quickdraws, but instead I have an amazing 3. Local shops don't sell the ones i want, so I guess I can't do much.


pico23


Apr 15, 2003, 10:47 PM
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In reply to:
That's what the cordolettes are for. On top of that, all of my hexes are old school (designed to be slung with webbing) so I don't need as long of slings on them to keep them from walking. And to be sure, I do climb fairly straight routes. Splitters and offwidths. The thing is, even on meadering pitches, I only use long slings when the route changes direction. More often than not, I don't fall, so protection is moot anyway, but I would much rather not have the sling hanging halfway down to my next peice. I can (and often do) sew things up simply for fun, and honestly, I don't use longs slings unless I have to. Stylistic differences perhaps?

Depends on where you are climbing I guess in terms of runners vs. draws. I tend to extend many placements unless it's gonna mean the difference between hitting the deck but ultimately keeping gear fixed is my goal. The places I climb the routes (especially anything under 5.8 ) tend to wander all over gods country. Zigs, zags, roofs, ledges and all out traverses are pretty common. I see to many peoples gear sliding down there rope as the drag rips it out because they used short draws. And the pieces that don't come out are creating so much drag just finishing the pitch is a workout because of the rope drag. It makes me laugh to watch this, why bother placing in the first place if you weren't gonna do it right. Of course it isn't so funny when it is your own gear. :shock:


alpnclmbr1


Apr 15, 2003, 10:59 PM
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00 TCU
0 TCU
Green alien x2
Yellow alien x2
Red Alien x2
Purple camalot
Green camalot x3
Red camalot x2
Gold camalot x2

Set of bd stoppers
Set of rpís
Set of steel nuts
Small peanuts x3
HBís x3

10 spectra shoulder slings
2 doglegs (1/2 length shoulder slings)

get exactly what you want to end up with, anything else will eventually end up in your closet


savedbymynuts


Apr 16, 2003, 7:12 PM
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Most of the information given is good.

My best advice to you is to find out what people in your area are climbing with not people from all across the world. Save your money till you get to college and then get with the climbing community over their and ask them what to climb with in your area and how best to protect it. You may find yourself in a region where you can only sport climb. Some walls do not have the cracks to put a cam or a nut and the only way to protect it is with bolts.

I have bought a lot of scuba gear to find my self with out a diving partner because my partner was not willing to dive as much as I was.

The most important thing is to find out if you will be able to climb and if so where. Then you spend the money on what you need according to the places you will go to.


phugganut


Apr 16, 2003, 8:16 PM
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If you are starting a rack, then don't forget the tri-cams. They are much cheaper than cams, and gearexpress.com has a decent deal on the smallest 6 (IMHO the smallest 5 are the best) but either way make sure to get the pinkie. Tri-cams rule!!! 8)


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