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zerogravity
Apr 3, 2003, 1:52 AM
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Registered: Apr 2, 2003
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-javascript:emoticon(':(') I'm hoping to get some feedback from climbers who have torn/popped an ACL. -
I was bouldering at Pawtuckaway in New Hampshire last weekend when I took an awkward fall. I landed wrong and blew out my ACL and sprained my MCL. Only my girlfriend and I were out there, so between her shoulder and a stick for a "crutch" I had to hop out of the woods on one leg for well over an hour. It was exhausting, and an extremely painful ordeal.
However, it was in no way as devastating as finding out that it was more than a bad sprain, but in fact a serious injury that would most likely need surgery. And just weeks before a vaca to the New River Gorge, and the whole climbing season.
My leg is locked down at a 30 degree angle until next wednesday at which time I'll be able to start moving it but it sounds like I'll have to build up my strengh before I go under the knife for an ACL replacement.
Either way I'm pretty sure this whole season is shot.
I'd love to hear some other climber's experiences with this type of injury, especially the sucess stories because I'm pretty down right now and could use a little inspiration. - Jesse :(
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trkrunner03
Apr 3, 2003, 2:12 AM
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Registered: May 31, 2002
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Hey whats going on, i didnt actually tear an acl but i tore my meniscus skiing and fractured part of my tibia where the acl runs through the bone. Its not as hard of an ordeal as it seems, i am only 3 months after my surgery and i can run again. i am also almost cleared to climb again, i must mention though that i am only 18 and recover fast. But if you find a great surgeon its easy to be back at it soon if you follow your physical therapists regimine strictly. If you have the means i recomend you head on out to denver to be worked on by the Steadman Hawkins clinic, they worked on me and do pro atheletes such as Terrel Davis and just about every other denver bronco as well as baseball players and U.S. ski team members from across the country, so if you can get out here for surgery (maybe your loaded) it would be worth it. They pioneered acl repairs in the early 80's starting in Vail Co doing ski injuries so they know their stuff and are very agressive. If you have any questions feel free to drop me an email TrkRunner03@aol.com
Good luck
Dave
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iamthewallress
Apr 3, 2003, 2:27 AM
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
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Huge bummer! I tore my ACL on October 9th and got surgery on Oct. 31. I think that the longer you wait, the further out of shape you'll get. As long as you get back your range of motion before surgery (I did a lot of PT), you can go for it right away. I didn't want to wait because I wanted to rehab over the winter. If your leg is stable without the ligaments, you might want to wait for next winter.
As for whether or not to operate, I asked around and heard a lot of "I didn't get the surgery and only have the following problems...which I deal with various ways" along with a lot of "I don't know why I didn't do it sooner. As good (or practically) as new." The clincher was a warning that even if I could handle the instability now, I'd be more likely to get arthritis later without the surgery.
On the bright side, I just passed the 5 month mark from my ACL surgery. I started climbing one-legged in the gym at 6 weeks. I was carefully doing snug TRs outside at 2 months. (Steep stuff like cracks or knobs was best because I could take weight with my hands. Slabs are still scarey.) I started leading at 4 months, but only when I'm sure I won't fall. (Free-solo sure!) I even tried to do a wall a couple of weeks ago (w/ Sherpa and we got rained off anyway, but still I feel like the knee was holding up.) All of this is faster than any doc would recommend b/c your leg won't be strong enough to handle a fall or a big torque. If you have the personal discipline to always back off when it seems sketchy, you can push your rehab shedule ahead.
Hiking is the hardest thing. Get yourself a good pair of hiking sticks and have your girlfriend start training with the heavy pack so you don't have to carry much weight. I wear my motion-limiting brace (to avoid sudden hyperextension or bending) when I hike because I can't control the possibility of slipping on loose dirt as easily as I can manage on solid rock within my climbing ability.
On a sadder note, since is sounds like you are a boulderer, boulder landings will probably be the last thing that you can go back to. Learn to love the TR!
PM me if you want more info. I was really anal when I researched my options, and I kept a pretty detailed rehab log if you are interested in any of this.
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brad
Apr 3, 2003, 2:41 AM
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Registered: Feb 4, 2003
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Man, I feel for you! I tore the "terrible trio" in the mid 80s, which I think I recall was the ACL, MCL and ML, with partial tears in the meniscus. I had two knee reconstructions done within the next few years. Both of these were major surgery with a few arthroscopes to boot, and each involved at least a week in the hospital. I think the first one was to give me a replacement MCL, and the second was a patellar tendon graft. Both involved long rehabilitations, but remember this was about 1988-1991 when I had the surgeries done. I've lost maybe 15-20 deg range of motion bending that leg (left), and it's somewhat numb from all the surgery and scar tissue, but I can climb with it ok. I do think twice before I do a drop knee with that leg. It bothers me most on downhill scrambles and hikes. And I'll never ski again -- I'm just a tad bit afraid of having a 3' lever torquing on that knee in a fall. But I can climb, and for me that's good enough.
I think knee surgery has come a long way in the past 10-15 years, and they can do a lot with just arthroscopes. My advice is find yourself a good orthopedic surgeon who does lots of knees, and in particular has done lots of exactly what your going to have done. You don't want to be somebody's posterboy. And do your physical therapy religiously!
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freeballn
Apr 3, 2003, 3:08 AM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2002
Posts: 41
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Just over three years ago I had a really bad ice related wreck snowboarding, and I completely tore my ACL, MCL, PCL, and both meniscus front to back in my left knee. It took two surgeries and 9 months of intense physical therapy, but I was riding and doing other sports again within a year. I actually got more into climbing since then, partly because it is less impactual than lots of outdoor activities.
I can't stress enough how important it is to do everything recommended by your doctor and physical therapists to make sure that your injury heals well, and you maintain maximum range of motion. I will have to lift regularly for the rest of my life to keep the muscles in my leg strong for holding my knee together, but the more I lift and exercise, the better it feels. Having to stay in shape isn't such bad thing.
Not to discount your injury, but it doesn't sound nearly as bad as mine, and there is nothing holding me back from climbing as hard as I want. I'm sure that if you stay on top of doing your best at the exercises and therapy recommended, you will be back at your full strength in less time than you expect. Be careful not to push too hard. I know of a few people who pushed harder than was recommended by their doctor, and ended up making their injury worse or last longer than it would have.
You will probably hear that once you are on the road to recovery cycling is one of the best things for your knee. Good luck with your healing process. I'm sorry to here this happened right before your scheduled trip, but be careful not to make the injury worse. If I can help you with any info or motivation let me know.
Carson
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meataxe
Apr 3, 2003, 3:29 PM
Post #6 of 11
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Registered: Oct 23, 2002
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This is sounding like a broken record. I tore my ACL, PCL and MCL in the mid-80's (motocross). After nearly 5 months on crutches and nearly 2 years of physiotherapy I ended up in fairly good shape.
There's a lot of stuff I don't do, like soccer or most ball sports. I do however ride bikes (I started competing less than a year after surgery), climb, hike, martial arts and XC ski. I even did downhill skiing and learned to ski gates. Since then, I switched to snowboarding.
Freeballn, it must have been a spectacular crash :shock: -- I ride without a brace these days with no problem. In fact I did a little research when I started boarding... Lower body injuries (mostly knees) are higher in skiing; upper body injuries are higher in snowboarding (arm/wrist/clavicle). Head injuries are about equal.
I would definately recommend snowboarding over skiing for people with bad knees. A ski on a single leg is a huge lever. A board secured to two widely spaced legs offers little leverage on your knees.
I would recommend getting into surgery as soon as possible -- when I had my surgery they told me that if it is done in the first week after injury, then there is a better success rate. (Free surgery in Canada, so you know he wasn't trying to pressure me.)
The good news is that ACL recovery can be a lot more complete than the "terrible trio" injuries above.
One more thing... I had to work my ass off in recovery--I got up at 5:30 every morning so that I had enough time to do my stretches and excercise. And get a good physiotherapist--the guy I had went to extreme measures to help restore range of motion--most sessions were two hours long.
HTH (notice how people LOVE to talk about their injuries :) )
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bartlax
Apr 3, 2003, 4:01 PM
Post #7 of 11
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Registered: Mar 5, 2002
Posts: 26
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Ouch Bro!!!! I have never torn anything down there like that but have indeed had injuries come my way that prevented me from climbing. A huge bummer I know!! All I can say is do your best to look on the brighter side of the situation. Use the time to really work on your upper body, arms, hands, and tendons. Your legs are used a lot, and when it is time to be up and walking again, you will find that you gain your leg strength back pretty quick. Good luck!!
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tradguy
Apr 3, 2003, 5:04 PM
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Registered: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 526
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I tore my ACL on August 1, 2001. Kind of lame story, but I did it playing ultimate frisbee (collision with two other people in the air, bad landing - but hey, I scored a goal!) Anyway, in addition to the complete tear of the ACL, I also had some tears in the meniscus, and general ligament strain in the rest of the knee joint.
I happened to live in Rochester, MN (home of the Mayo clinic), and even though my insurance didn't cover Mayo, my surgeon at the hospital had done his orthopedic residency there, so I felt comfortable with his credentials. Anyway, they said that surgery would have better results if they wait a couple months after the injury, because by then the swelling and general trauma to the joint will have gone down, and they will be able to tell what is healing on its own, and what will need to be surgically fixed. Also, they said the stronger your leg muscles and joint are, the faster your post-surgery recovery will be. So I did rehab and therapy for a month or so to get back to "normal". I even started climbing again about 7 or 8 weeks after the injury (wearing a cheap Ace knee brace from Target), and got in good enough shape that I went on an 9 day trip to Joshua Tree, returning just 2 days before my scheduled surgery.
My surgery, which was 2.5 months after the injury, was outpatient - only took a couple hours and they sent me home the same afternoon. I used crutches just that day to get home, and by the following day I was hobbling around without them. By the next week I was able to walk around, though stairs were still pretty tough. I really didn't do as much therapy as it sounds like other people did - mostly just did the exercises at home that the therapist gave me, and came in once a week to have my progress checked. The hardest thing for me was getting my stride back to normal - as in putting my foot down, rolling my weight onto it, and shifting the knee back into a semi-locked position. It was frustrating, and it took a while to really feel like I was walking "normally" again. I made good progress, though, and 3 month after the surgery I did some ice climbing, and even took a trip to Africa and climbed Kilimanjaro. I also went back to Joshua Tree for another 9 days of climbing about 5 months after the surgery, and at 7 months I went to Mt. Rainier to climb Liberty Ridge.
Looking back on it all, I think I pushed my recovery along a bit faster than I should have. I found myself having other ankle and hip ailments in that 3-7 month range that were likely caused by favoring my non-injured leg and also by pushing myself on climbs when I really wasn't in proper shape physically (due to lack of training). I did quite alot of rock climbing this past summer, fall, and winter, and even started skiing again in January (15 months post-surgery). At this point, as I approach 18 months post-surgery, I feel like I'm getting close to normal. The strength is all there, and I'm even to the point where I can run 5K without noticing much ill effects. I still take Advil occasionally for swelling (after hard running workout), and every once in a while I'll just have an off day (seems kind of linked with weather changes / storm fronts) where the knee is just sore, but as a whole I think I'm doing pretty well with it. My surgeon told me to expect occasional "funkiness" with the joint for 2 years or more after the surgery, so I don't think it's anything out of the ordinary.
One other thing I should add - I had the surgeon use donor tissue (from a cadaver) for my ACL replacement. The option to this is to use the middle 3rd of your own patellar tendon (connect your knee cap to your lower leg), but then you basically have 2 injuries to recover from instead of just 1. After weighing the pros and cons of each, I went with the donor tissue because it was going to dramatically cut my recovery time, and I'm very happy that I did.
Good luck.
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zerogravity
Apr 6, 2003, 2:18 AM
Post #9 of 11
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Registered: Apr 2, 2003
Posts: 19
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Thanks to everyone who offered up knee beta! You guys had some good advice and certainly gave me some perspective. I'm not as worked over as some of you were! My orthopede said we won't know for a little while if I need surgery, but odds are I will. Either way I'm in for a long recovery/re-hab at the beginning of the season which is a major drag. Oh well, got to roll with the punches and look forward to better days.
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clymberboy
Apr 12, 2003, 12:30 PM
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Registered: Jun 15, 2001
Posts: 136
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yeah, don't sweat it. i, like so many others before me, have really fubar'd up my knee. i ripped mine up playing backyard football, before i even got addicted to climbing. i ended up with a partial ACL tear. my first surgery only cleaned up the torn tissues with the hopes that i was young & strong enough to get by on what ACL remained. wrong. throughout the next few years my knee would pop out until i finally had a complete blowout. having the arthro again, i had a complete reconstruction with the patellar (sp?) graft. the short story is that my knee is severly torn up with little cartilege left. the graft substituting for my ACL has also since stretched leaving me prone to dislocations from time to time. i could have another reconstruction, but that would entail cutting up my other good knee for a raft or using cadaver parts. i chose to strengthen it & go the preventive route. but it has never kept me from climbing! i'll never play soccer, basketball, or any other fast paced pivoting sport again, but thats ok with me. i usually wear the big robo-cop looking brace while hiking & such & only a neoprene brace whilst climbing. unfortunately, i don't trust it for bouldering & having to jump down onto my feet so much, but i'd rather be on the sharp end anyway ;)
i would recommend the surgery & PT. then follow it up with continous conditioning & strngth training.
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micahmcguire
Apr 15, 2003, 6:01 AM
Post #11 of 11
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Registered: Apr 18, 2002
Posts: 889
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sucks to be you, those tend not to heal well. take alot of glucosamine and see a physical therpapist who specializes in recovering from sports injuries. i've had a couple nasty ones that some physical therapy did well
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