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foolry
Apr 5, 2003, 11:30 PM
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Registered: Apr 4, 2002
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I led my first trad this yesterday and thought that most of my placements were good. (I placed three nuts(6, 7, 8 ) and a cam(Metoius 3)). But my partner said something about my second nut only having "three points of contact". :?: Can someone give me some pointers on how to get better at this? Also, any other tid-bits would be great!
And for the spray: It was a 5.8 onsight! (mostly cuz I was to afraid to fall. ) :shock:
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cass
Apr 7, 2003, 3:22 AM
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Registered: May 5, 2001
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as they say, practise makes perfect...heh
good luck!
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macattack22
Apr 7, 2003, 3:35 AM
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If you want to know more about placing all kinds of pro and how to know if they're placed right, I highly recommend the book "Climbing Anchors" by John Long. He goes into the detail about various kinds of pro (nuts, hexes, cams, tricams, etc) and various situations in which to place them, what to do/not to do, etc, even how to best remove them. You'll find out why it's important to have 3 points of contact with the rock. IT's a good book for a good price IMO, valuable info any trad climber oughtta know... a very comprehensive addition to in-situ experience. I read through this a few times before I lead my first trad pitch and it helped a lot.
Here's a link for ya: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0934641374/qid=1049686326/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-6519199-8511334?v=glance&s=books
Hope that helps :)
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apollodorus
Apr 7, 2003, 3:41 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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It's better for the nut to contact rock along both faces completely. If you only get "three points of contact", that means two spots on one side and one on the other. Under load, the high pressure at those spots could cause the rock to crush and the piece to pull out.
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knate
Apr 7, 2003, 4:29 AM
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Registered: Aug 20, 2002
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aren't metolius curved nuts designed to have three points of conact though? sure, the more surface contact between the piece and the rock, the better, but some pro is designed for the three points of contact placement.
http://metoliusclimbing.com/curvenut.asp
edited adding the link
-knate-
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climbingbetty22
Apr 7, 2003, 4:32 AM
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Registered: Dec 29, 2002
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The key to good gear placement is surface area. That goes for any piece. The more of it you have in contact with the rock the better it will hold. A good rule of thumb for nuts is to have at least 70% of the nut in contact with the rock. Oh and make sure you set them in good rock too. It can be the most bomb placement ever but if you put it in crap rock, it won't hold s***.
betty
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cynic
Apr 7, 2003, 5:39 AM
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Registered: Feb 18, 2003
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While more surface area will make the placement more secure (less likely to shift) you really do only need 3 points of contact for a bomber piece, hence the metolius nuts. The biggest reason for trying to get as much contact as possible is to make the piece easier to clean in the event you fall on it, more surface means less deformation both of the nut and of the rock and less chance of the nut becoming impossibly wedged in the crack. Remember, it's the constriction below the nut that is going to catch you in a fall, so the contact of the nut with the rock above the constriction just needs to be enough to keep it from jumping out of the crack as you move up.
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apollodorus
Apr 7, 2003, 6:31 AM
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In very hard and strong rock (e.g. granite), three points of contact is probably not going to break the rock. Instead, the piece itself will deform at the points of contact, and maybe become fixed.
Those curved nuts are for getting more, not less, surface contact with the rock. Chouinard upgraded his original Stoppers to curved ones in about 1982. The idea is that most crack placements involve sinuous and wavy rock, so a curved nut will fit better.
I've also heard that the curved nuts and the three-points is "like a three-legged stool, which is more stable". Sure. Whatever.
Mo' area = Mo' betta.
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