Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Big Wall and Aid Climbing:
Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Big Wall and Aid Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


highcamp


Apr 6, 2003, 1:16 PM
Post #1 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 29

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sounds like a simply question, I thought so too, but Iím finding it isnít.

Iíve been aiding for about 4 years now, struggled my way up a couple walls, and for the most part did so without incident. The standard method Iíve used for attaching my daisies to my aiders, so I donít lose the later, is to link the end-loop of the daisy to the attachment loops of both aiders using a locking Ďbiner. Through both attachment loops of the aiders I then attach the Ďbiner which I use to clip to whatever piece Iím about to move up on. Although cramming two Ďbiners through the attachment points of aiders (loops which I believe are only sized for one 'biner) has made for a rather rigid connection, it kept me from losing the set and thus it did itís job.

While aiding yesterday, however, I discovered a major glitch in the system. While standing in the 2nd steps of my aiders leaning way out to place a hook just above the lip of the roof I was under I realized that my daisy connection to the aiders was pulling perpendicular to the direction which my aiders were pulling (meaning that while my aiders were exerting a downward force, my daisy was exerting a severe outward force). The piece I was on wasnít effected at all, but the attachment loops of the aiders sure were.

Basically I was stretching the aider attachment loops between the 'biner clipped to the piece and the locking 'biner attached to my daisy. It looked really ugly at the stitching point. I was effectively testing the loop strength of the aider attachment pointís stitching (which it wasnít designed for) vs. itís sheer strength (which it was). The stitches didnít blow, but it looked unnerving enough for me to seek out an alternative method of attaching the daisy.

Iíve surfed about looking for such alternative methods, and have found none that still link the daisy to the aiders in a manner that keeps the two atached so I can't drop the aider set. Even ďThe Better WayĒ is susceptible to the loop stretching problem.

Anybody have any other ideas? How do you folks attach the two and subsequently attach the lot to the next piece to avoid this loop stretching issue?


brutusofwyde


Apr 6, 2003, 2:47 PM
Post #2 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I use Yates adjustable daisys. Had Yates make the loop a bit larger so it would slide over a locking carabiner barrel and gate.

Used to use a two carabiner system similar to what you describe, but have switched to everything clipped into one carabiner, a oval locker. Less mess. If making placements where I feel I want the locker engaged, I do so, otherwise use it as a normal oval would be used.

No loading issues this way, and I keep the Yates loop on the side of the carabiner away from the gate for those balancy reaches.


wallrat


Apr 6, 2003, 5:53 PM
Post #3 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2002
Posts: 155

aider/daisy [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sir Brutus of Wyde nailed it...use an oval locker.


flamer


Apr 6, 2003, 9:13 PM
Post #4 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I agree with Brutus,
However I use Petzl attaches'. The key lock just makes it smoother clipping/unclipping from gear, bolts, pins, etc. The spine is also a perfect sized handle for those clip and pull situations.
josh


smithclimber


Apr 6, 2003, 10:11 PM
Post #5 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 14, 2002
Posts: 338

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Personally, I've never found a need to use any lockers or second biners on my setup. I just put both aiders and the end of the daisy on one keylock oval.

This sounds a bit like one of those situations where we are creating a solution to a problem that doesn't exist (the problem being dropping aiders, not the genuine concern of pulling the stitching of the loops apart).

Anyway, I suppose if you are super paranoid about losing your aiders (it's never been a problem for me) you COULD girth hitch the end of your daisy directly to the attachment loop on your aider(s) and then just use the one biner as per usual. Although I don't do it, some people use this method when it comes to jugging. They girth hitch directly to the ascender. If you chose to use this method on the aiders I suppose the worst thing that could happen is you might lose just the biner, however you would eliminate the possibility of losing the aider(s).


apollodorus


Apr 6, 2003, 11:35 PM
Post #6 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 18, 2002
Posts: 2157

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

And, of course, Brutus of Wyde is the only guy in the whole wide world who has OVAL LOCKERS! I remember seeing them, back when the vegetation rioted and giants walked the earth. But now? The only time I even hear about them anymore is when I transfix a campfire crowd with my tale of the time I actually TOUCHED an Oval Locker.

Edited to prevent hijacking the thread (see next post): I use lockers to keep the aiders and daisies together. A separate, regular biner is clipped to the aider for clipping pieces. That way, you don't risk dropping the aider by opening the locker.


smithclimber


Apr 7, 2003, 12:00 AM
Post #7 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 14, 2002
Posts: 338

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey Tom, don't hijack the thread, man.

BTW, oval lockers can still be found. Petzl makes them and Kong might too.


fishypete


Apr 7, 2003, 1:28 AM
Post #8 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 5, 2002
Posts: 200

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I bought some oval lockers just a few weeks ago....


highcamp


Apr 7, 2003, 3:51 PM
Post #9 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 29

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I actually tried the lone 'biner method, but it turned out to be a mess. Trying to cram two aiders and a Metolius adjustable daisy so that they all sit harmoniously on one end of an oval was impossible. There just isn't enough real estate.... most of the space that is available is taken up by the adjustable daisy. The grouping of all three also made opening the 'biner gate a pain. Not really a "pain" per se, but after 100 ft of aid I'm sure I'd be ready to kick an old lady out of frustration.

So I need a 'biner with more room if I'm going to go this route, preferably one that is oval or close to it. Ideas? (please don't recommend the 5 lb steel 'biners used for rescue... 100 ft of using those would make me want to kick an old lady as well.)

thanks


bradhill


Apr 7, 2003, 4:21 PM
Post #10 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 486

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Kong not only makes oval lockers, but they have a keylock gate and come in fun anodized colors like bright purple.


simzboardr


Apr 7, 2003, 7:59 PM
Post #11 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 8, 2002
Posts: 232

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Dude tons of companies make oval lockers, i found Petzl oval lockers are the best...they also have a new sweet oval keylock witha thumbgrip...it looks really sweet. Black Diamond has some oval lockers and a new oval wiregate. Great for aiding


punk


Apr 7, 2003, 9:36 PM
Post #12 of 12 (2208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 28, 2002
Posts: 1442

Tricky: attaching daisy to aiders? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post


    [*:ffcfb277ee]My alternative way off attaching the Aiders is to attach both Aiders with Petzl MíD locking and Petzl spirit for the daisy then hang the MíD in the spirit and fix it with some rubber bend around the Míd so it wont slide and fall
    [*:ffcfb277ee]With the Yates, u can rig the whole thing (Aiders + MíD) to the daisy Carabiner loop since it is bigger then the Metolius (it can take 2 biners)
    [*:ffcfb277ee]The last method is to get the 4Ē short draw loop and thread it through the Aiders and clipping the ends to the same Carabiner that your daisy attached to then finishing this with a rubber band loop (like at the end of a drawÖto make the biner stationary)
    [*:ffcfb277ee]I never tried it but u can also use the small Petzl maillon rapid to connect your Aiders to the daisy biner since it will be lower profile
    The DELTA n 10
    The GO n 7

:wink:


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook