|
sheldonjr
Apr 5, 2003, 7:17 PM
Post #1 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 191
|
Which are the best small cams, and why? Do some have a tendancy to walk or pop out? How about profile? It'd be interesting to hear y'alls opinions.
|
|
|
|
|
camhead
Apr 5, 2003, 8:00 PM
Post #2 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 10, 2001
Posts: 20939
|
most folks go with Metolius TCU's or Aliens for the real thin stuff. My Metolius work great. Anyone had experience with the Black Diamond Micro-camalots? I've heard they they're not the best, but don't have any under .75.
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Apr 5, 2003, 8:08 PM
Post #3 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
Repeating what posts I have been reading here over the past year, I would have to say that CCH Aliens get the highest regard whenever this topic comes up. Wild Country Zero cams also get good reviews (Climbing Mag). Metolius TCUs work better in some situations, ie. pockets, but have lower kn ratings. It's all scary stuff when your life hangs on such a small piece of metal.
|
|
|
|
|
dukeclimber
Apr 5, 2003, 8:30 PM
Post #4 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2003
Posts: 29
|
I've been reading the forums on this site for quite awhile and one of the reasons I finally set up an account is to say how much I like metolius TCU's. I've just bought some aliens but I still seem to find a place on every climb I do for a blue and a yellow TCU. The purple and grey seem just a little too small to put too much trust in, but I do carry them when I think I might need some really small pieces. I feel that the u stems on TCU's allow me to place them more precisely than my aliens. I really love my TCU's :D . But I am slowly building up doulbles in the aliens. It seems that both have their own situations.
|
|
|
|
|
kyhangdog
Apr 5, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #5 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 4, 2001
Posts: 480
|
Metolius TCUs all the way.
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Apr 5, 2003, 10:42 PM
Post #6 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
Its time to be realistic about kilonewton ratings on most rock gear. Its hard to find a cam placement where the rock will not fail but the cam will. This is true for all CE and UIAA certified cams. This is the honest truth. Wild Country adjusted the strength of their nut cables after it was discovered that not a single wire at the 22kN strength rating had ever failed outside of the the laboratory. Rock gear is over-engineered such that you have some leeway between when the rock will fail and when the pro will die. Metolius's design philosophy reflects this. Why pay for greater strength if the difference is lost on the consumer? On top of that, metolius's wider cam faces mean that they're failure ratings are a much closer approximation to anything you'll encounter in the real world.
Having said all that, I still prefer Aliens in the little stuff and Camalots for most of the big. TCU's are great, but I like 4 cams better than 3 most of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
wanlessrm
Apr 6, 2003, 12:09 AM
Post #7 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 333
|
Aliens are the best small cams! Hands down
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
Apr 6, 2003, 12:39 AM
Post #8 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
Two link for ya:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23431&highlight=
http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=15607&forum=19&start=30
The second one covers some very good info about small cam strength directly from Metolius.
Ed
|
|
|
|
|
mojorisin
Apr 6, 2003, 12:46 AM
Post #9 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 14, 2002
Posts: 994
|
Has anyone mentioned Aliens??
|
|
|
|
|
geezergecko
Apr 6, 2003, 3:47 AM
Post #10 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 729
|
Thanks up2top for the link on TCU ratings and now I feel a little less apprehensive about using the smaller sizes. Still think I'll use the 00 TCU (and black Alien) just for aid tho.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Apr 6, 2003, 4:03 PM
Post #11 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
In reply to: I feel that the u stems on TCU's allow me to place them more precisely than my aliens. I really love my TCU's :D . But I am slowly building up doulbles in the aliens. It seems that both have their own situations.
The place where single stem is better than u-stem is on walls. The design of single stem cams allow for 2-cam placements in pin scars, whereas the u-stem prevents insertion of the cams.
Leapfrogging black aliens using 2 cam placements = FUN!
|
|
|
|
|
ambler
Apr 6, 2003, 5:44 PM
Post #12 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1690
|
In reply to: In reply to: I feel that the u stems on TCU's allow me to place them more precisely than my aliens. I really love my TCU's :D . But I am slowly building up doulbles in the aliens. It seems that both have their own situations. The place where single stem is better than u-stem is on walls. The design of single stem cams allow for 2-cam placements in pin scars, whereas the u-stem prevents insertion of the cams.
Conversely, there are cracks where the thinner profile of TCU cables makes a placement possible; Aliens would be too thick. As dukeclimber says, both have their own situations. Which you should carry (when you don't wanna bring everything) might depend on the type of rock as well as what you're most used to. Different leaders often "see" placements differently.
I don't climb walls anymore, but seem to find a couple of TCU placements on just about every trad lead I do. The smallest TCUs in particular. I know they won't hold a truck, but as Mick says "you can't always get what you want."
|
|
|
|
|
beyond_gravity
Apr 6, 2003, 9:01 PM
Post #13 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2002
Posts: 5078
|
I have a BD 0.4 Camalot. It's still got the dual axles and it still feels nice and stable.
|
|
|
|
|
wanlessrm
Apr 6, 2003, 9:24 PM
Post #14 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 29, 2002
Posts: 333
|
Metolius TCU's are on sale at REI for 199 bucks!
Thats a sweet deal.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
Apr 6, 2003, 9:56 PM
Post #15 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
In reply to: Which you should carry (when you don't wanna bring everything) might depend on the type of rock as well as what you're most used to. Different leaders often "see" placements differently.
Very true.
That being said, I haven't carried a TCU on walls OR trad in at least 15 years, whereas hybrid aliens are required equipment on my rack for every non-bolted climb with cracks in that size range.
Like you say, it depends on the rock as well as the leader.
Small cams = anything under 6" :wink:
Brutus of Wyde
Old Climbers' Home
Oakland, California
|
|
|
|
|
straightedgeteen
Apr 9, 2003, 12:28 AM
Post #16 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 8, 2002
Posts: 367
|
In reply to: Aliens are the best small cams! Hands down
Amen!
|
|
|
|
|
pbjosh
Apr 9, 2003, 12:46 AM
Post #17 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 22, 2002
Posts: 1518
|
For the umpteenth time, Metolius's smallest TCU's ARE NOT WEAKER THAN ALIENS. Metolius willfully downrated their strength to reflect the fact that smaller pieces should not be trusted for big falls. This is because small cams will fail by breaking out of the placement - pulling out, breaking off a small flake, expanding a flake, etc. The BD micro-camalots, the Metolius TCUs and Aliens are all exactly the same strength as far as you should be concerned - that is they're strong enough that the metal won't break. Whether or not they save your neck is a function of how well you placed them. They have little metal in contact with the rock and they fit in little places - ingredients for weak placements, not for weak gear. Shopping between Metolius, BD and CCH based on rated kN is as stupid as not using a condom in Thailand. Shop between these brands based on what you'll be climbing, what pieces you like and what you can garner from the experiences of people who've used the snot out of them.
The larger cam sizes (#3.5 camalot and larger perhaps, or #4 friend and larger perhaps) tend to have another failure mode beyond destroying their placement/pulling out - they could potentially collapse due to the large amount of metal being loaded exactly along it longest, thinnest axis in the cam lobes. This has been shown to be the mode of failure in a perfect placement in laboratory tests. Whether this has occurred in real life I do not know.
That all having been said I like TCUs and Hybrid aliens.
josh
|
|
|
|
|
ricardol
Apr 9, 2003, 1:04 AM
Post #18 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 11, 2002
Posts: 1050
|
i have the .3, .4, .5 micro camalots ..
i love them .. a few times i've had a placement that was too small for the wide profile -- and somehow made them fit (by sliding them in, 1 cam at a time) ..
.. i have not yet bought the 2 smaller sizes because i've been aprehensive about using small gear ..
this last weekend i placed a #4 and an #5 BD nut -- after that experience i'm sold on the small cams .. (not that i dont want to place small nuts -- in fact they were pretty solid .. but if i'm going to be trusting nuts at the size of #4 BD -- then i might as well trust a .1 or .2 cam)
.. the .3 to .5 camalots are great -- i can always find placements for them .. i think though that for the .1 and .2 i might just get friends .. since they are smaller profile and at that size, the profile matters..
.. i almost always place a screamer along with placements this small to give the piece a greater chance of not blowing the placement..
-- ricardo
|
|
|
|
|
dirtineye
Apr 9, 2003, 2:59 PM
Post #19 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
|
I'll just echo what others have said:
Rather than worry about the brand, worry about the placement and your ability to set the piece correctly. Place well and often. Remember cams are not magic, you have to set them carefully too, just like nuts hexes and tricams.
I use zero friends, tcus, camelots and tech friends, not to mention ball nutz, tri-cams and astro nuts, and I'll trust the one that fits the best for the placement.
To digress a little, placeing cams where other pro will work better can get you in trouble, don't lock yourself into a particular kind of gear, use the one that will work best.
|
|
|
|
|
vram1974
Apr 9, 2003, 3:47 PM
Post #20 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2003
Posts: 113
|
I have the Rock Empire Robot TCU's... but I haven't done enough field testing to give any sort of definitive answer here. I also have the .5 and the .75 DMM TCU's, and in fact the green one held a good 15 footer on my brother. The half-incher is hard to place (IMO), and sometimes causes more grief than joy trying to place those 3 points of contact somewhere. It's frightening to say that two of my Robot TCUs appear to have smaller axcels than the DMM .5... I also picked up a 4CU micro-Robot Cam from Rock Empire and it seems to fit everywhere! I am saddened that TCUs are so popular now when 4 heads of contact feels so much safer...
By the by... I was reading the WC Cams catalog and the Zero cams look so sweet. Their stems bend wilfully for awkward placements... they kind of look like a spring merged with a flexible stem micro-cam. But I haven't heard a lot about their success. In this month's copy of Gripped magazine, it appears there is a guy leading an E10 7b on a WC Zero cam... so surely some people trust these little guys...
|
|
|
|
|
robbo
Apr 9, 2003, 7:35 PM
Post #21 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 19, 2002
Posts: 32
|
Splitter Gear!!!
I bought a set of the 4cams. Because of their opposing cams they don't need cam stops. And since the cams are directly opposite each other they don't tend to walk. Very solid placement.
The 2 cam design will even fit into pin scars in a kind of sideways placement. There is a review about them in the Articles section.
|
|
|
|
|
gogunks
Apr 9, 2003, 7:47 PM
Post #22 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2003
Posts: 10
|
Check out this article. It's a great review of all the major cam brands.
http://www.climbing.com/Pages/equipment/equipment-212.html
|
|
|
|
|
texplorer
Apr 16, 2003, 1:08 AM
Post #23 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 24, 2002
Posts: 199
|
In reply to: For the umpteenth time, Metolius's smallest TCU's ARE NOT WEAKER THAN ALIENS. josh
Well Josh,
I'm going to disagree with you about be the holding power. Since metolious puts small grooves into their cam heads they have less surface area in contact with the rock which means less holding power. The cams themselves will not break but they are more likely to "pop" out of the rock than the scallopped aliens. In my experience the aliens have a slightly softer aluminum heads that over time wear to a smooth surface further increasing the amount of surface area even further. I am not saying TCU's are bad I am just saying that in lab tests aliens hold a great amount of force before being pulled from the rock.
|
|
|
|
|
alpinelynx
Apr 21, 2003, 5:47 PM
Post #24 of 24
(4592 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 11, 2002
Posts: 280
|
I love my aliens but I don' t have any bigger than the yellow. does anyone use those much?
|
|
|
|
|
|
