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using single double ropes
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beyond_gravity


Mar 28, 2003, 6:24 PM
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using single double ropes
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Lets say your doing a route that you are going to bring up another line to rap down anyways. In my case this would be two 10mm ropes. Would it make sense to use the ropes as double ropes and lead on both lines alternating ropes with each placement, or should I just bring it up on my haul loop like everyone else??


vtaclimber


Mar 28, 2003, 6:30 PM
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Registered: Nov 16, 2002
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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if you are going to climb on two ropes, you're better off using two double ropes...these are much thinner (8-9mm) and will greatly reduce the weight and rope drag you will have.
justin


mauriceb


Mar 28, 2003, 6:41 PM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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I wondered about this myself. Obviously it would be better (aka lighter) to use double ropes but what if you already have two ropes. Would it be better to climb wiht double rope technique or haul one rope?

Obviously I can't answer the ? from experience but there is a good article at www.thegunks.com that talks about the adv of using double even on non -traversing or wandering routes. I'll look for the link

maurice

Found it
http://www.gunks.com/rock/double_ropes/dropes_intro.htm


dirtineye


Mar 29, 2003, 11:05 AM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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Climbing on doubles is not bad, even if they are really two singles. BELAYING doubles is not for the beginner though. Before I'd climb on doubles, I'd make sure my belayer really knew what he was doing with doubles.

I've climbed on double 11(cause that's what we had) and double 8.5(true doubles). It's the belayer that matters. Two singles has some advantage over lightweight doubles, cause you can use one single to get out from under a roof and then set an anchor and climb only on the second single on the face to stop rope drag.


tenn_dawg


Mar 29, 2003, 11:54 AM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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Strap the rap line to your second's back, and let them climb with it.

Double ropes add quite a bit of trouble, and if it isin't a route where you would need double ropes to begin with, there is no need to climb on 2 regular ropes.

Either trail it, or let the second carry it.

Travis


pico23


Apr 10, 2003, 8:58 PM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Double ropes add quite a bit of trouble, and if it isin't a route where you would need double ropes to begin with, there is no need to climb on 2 regular ropes.

Double ropes initially have a learning curve but besides cutting rope drag even a sport route can benefit from doubles in terms of fall distance -don't get me wrong though on a well protected bolt ladder sport route i'd rather fall 5 feet extra then mess with doubles. To me the main advantage is not shock loading your gear if a piece pulls if you are clipping alternate ropes even on a non traversing route. If a piece pulls on a single rope the rope is already stretched when it hits the next piece. With doubles this doesn't happen. Other then that belays can be simplified with doubles and so can rescues.


punk


Apr 11, 2003, 1:48 PM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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Yeah u can do that BUTů.
1 The feed will be jerky
2 The technique allot more involve
3 The lead more strenuous (larger rope diameter = more friction + weight)
4 The ropes will have a different stretch on them since they most likely were not bought in the same time had the same use and from the same manufacture


bandycoot


Apr 11, 2003, 1:54 PM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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Just don't clip both ropes to the same piece. Otherwise it's fine what you are suggesting, and probably safer than using "double ropes" since they are only tested with 55Kg falls on a single stand to get their fall rall rating, and you really only fall on one of them with much more weight (unless you are very light). If you clip both "single" ropes into the same piece, the impact force is larger on you (bad) and on the piece (also bad).

Josh


climberwa


Apr 11, 2003, 2:17 PM
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Haul it.

There's no point in dragging two 10mm ropes through the system.

I would be very suprised if after a couple of placements you could pull the rope easily, or at all. besides, you are not gaining any safety since one rope is more than enough for protection.


pico23


Apr 11, 2003, 8:15 PM
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In reply to:
Haul it.

besides, you are not gaining any safety since one rope is more than enough for protection.

YES you are. You eliminate shock loads on your gear if a marginal placement pulls. I've never used two 10.5's though so I don't know what the negs would be. I assume there will be more drag but keep in mind with double rope technique you are actually cutting drag overall if you use the technique correctly. Learning a more advanced and ultimately safer technique is not gonna get you killed being lazy will.


slcliffdiver


Apr 14, 2003, 5:26 PM
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A single person belaying with two thick lines at the same time can be a bit more of a pain. I generaly avoid it unless there is an obvious advantage. There are situations clipping both can be helpful. Big roofs (the most common situation you intentionally bring and clip 2 single lines); one line clip up and under the roof, the other start clipping above the roof. Helpful to prevent rope drag and ropes cutting if the edge of the roof is sharp.

Like people said they can be useful in other situations double ropes are helpful. Also keep your second in mind on routes that traverse, curve, or zig zag. Someplaces clipping the other line may prevent you from effectively using it to prevent your second from penduluming into something nasty at a certain place some times it may help it's a case by case thing. I'd also be cautious about cliping two closely spaced pieces early before a runnout on multi pitch. The energy absorption of the ropes is designed to protect your pro AND your body from excessive forces. Two ropes may distribute the force between pieces but with a long enough fall with closely spaced pieces it's going to close in terms of the forces on your body to having cliped them both in a single piece. Taking a high fall factor fall on two single lines isn't my idea of fun.


Peace

David


dirtineye


Apr 14, 2003, 6:05 PM
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using single double ropes [In reply to]
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That's a good point there, thanks for reminding.


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