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copperhead


Apr 13, 2003, 3:25 PM
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These quotes appeared in this thread:
(I even wasted the time to make sure that the bold type was preserved…)

http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4561&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


(The trumpets sound as the Great One enters the room and seats himself upon his Great Throne…)

In reply to:
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, do you think that I'm ranting now???

Please be assured, I have not yet even BEGUN TO RANT.

Within the next 24 hours you people are going to see the RANT OF THE MILLENNIUM. This will be the RANT TO END ALL RANTS.

This is where I - Peter Zabrok - will show you that I am one of the world's best wall climbers.

I will show you that I am one of the world's best wall doctors.

In reply to:
Sometimes words like bitchin' are woefully insufficient to describe the bitchin'ness of a person, and nowhere is this more true than with Dr. Piton, Wall Doctor to the Masters. To merely say that Dr. Piton is bitchin' is simply not enough.

You may in fact require substantially different words to describe just how bitchin' I really am. I may choose to share these words with you at a later time. We shall see.

In reply to:
It was ignored by a jealous fool named Adam Bingel of Long Beach California, your webmaster, my principal detractor. And if you think FIEND went down in flames, wait til you see what is about to happen to adam. I am going to CRUCIFY him in print. He has underestimated the mighty Dr. Piton for the very last time!

Are you a comic book hero?
Adam is now on sabbatical.


When asked (in another thread) what was on your list for the summer, you replied:
In reply to:
Warmup on The Shield, followed by Bermuda Dunes. Looks like I'll have enough time to solo Gulf Stream, which is something I really want to do.

Hmmm, Bermuda Dunes… That’s an interesting one… Schneider and Barbella in ’84. It’s mostly a free route; have you been doing laps in the gym and practicing your OW technique? Or will this be another ascent with Tom and his Walleye Giants? If you aid all of the free sections, will you still list the route on this site as VI 5.11c, A4+? Do you think it’s still A4+? When’s the last time that route was climbed? I bet the bolts aren’t looking too good by now. With the tremendous loads that you haul up the wall, what is your plan with respect to dealing with poor bolted anchors? I know you’ll have a bolt kit with you… You’re not thinking of adding NEW bolts to the belays, are you? How about replacing the bad bolts properly with fatty SS new ones? I’m sure the folks at the ASCA could set you up with the necessary gear. How about replacing bad rivets with ¼” buttonheads? Whaddaya think? You’re gonna be up there for a long time anyways so might as well fix up the route while you’re at it, eh? Like, eh? You know… being one of the best wall climbers in the world, you ought to be able to replace bolts, right?

Gulf Stream looks like a good one. Two of my bros (both excellent climbers) got a few pitches up the thing and then decided they’d rather climb something else. Given that the route is not very old (new-ish bolts) and the fact that you will be soloing, will you need to bring a bolt kit? Cheater stick?

So, my challenge to you is this (provided you intend to ‘stick’ to your publicly stated plans):

1. Do not add bolts to Bermuda Dunes.
2. Replace (properly) any/all bad rivets on Bermuda Dunes.
3. Replace (properly) any/all bad bolts at belays on Bermuda Dunes.
4. Do not bring a drill on Gulf Stream.
5. Do not bring a ‘cheater stick’ on Gulf Stream.

A world-renowned wall climber of your stature should have no problem meeting such a challenge, right?
The world’s best wall climbers don’t drill on established routes nor do they use a cheater stick, right?

Whaddaya think?





It’s snowing outside…


tenn_dawg


Apr 13, 2003, 3:41 PM
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Bryan,

Hmmm, I just can't figure out why a seemingly reasonable person would go out of his way to start an unprovoked fight.

I don't think you've got anything go gain.

What could be the motivation?

Hmmmm, could it possibly be a sour taste of... jealousy?

Travis


copperhead


Apr 13, 2003, 3:47 PM
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Tenn_Dawg wrote:
In reply to:
...jealousy?

Nope.

PTPP also wrote:
In reply to:
I am going to prove to everyone, once and for all, that I'm the best. I'm one of the best wall climbers, one of the best wall doctors, and I have all the proof I need for the Doubting Adams, the real losers of this website.

For it is by their jealousy that they are losing.

Tenn_Dawg wrote:
In reply to:
What could be the motivation?

Simple amusement and the others that I talk to.


cantwinifyoudontplay2003


Apr 13, 2003, 4:16 PM
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Sometimes I can't get what side of the fence your on.... Got me thinking too ..... Damn I can't cheat again... F--_ I am going to have to leave my cheat stick at home this year....... Copperhead your going to change my climb.. Darn...I love my cheater stick too ! Why did I have to all of the sudden get a conscious ? I take the challenge..............
climb on
oh ya and paise to pete either way... Wall climbers should stick together.....If you need a challenge try and get a RETARD up El Cap.


onelung


Apr 13, 2003, 4:55 PM
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I am sure most people here would be happy to let what was said in Novenber 2001 be left in 2001. Damn You should have seen me then! Why then dig up this personal bickering,
My only suggestion would be to delete this thread and replace it with one of good rock climbing interaction.
Happy Sunday, In one month I'll be in the valley!
Bill


wallrat


Apr 13, 2003, 5:00 PM
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delete this trhead [In reply to]
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Hey bro, this is too much, If you have dirty laundry with PTPP, send him a PM. Keep it off the website. We're not interested in your trying to start a fight.


drkodos


Apr 13, 2003, 5:04 PM
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Actually....

I think this is the perfect forum for a verbal sparring match. Isn't that THE point of the site.....to express diverse and differeing views?


xanx


Apr 13, 2003, 5:07 PM
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well, i am a bit of a n00b to this site and missed the apparently epic 2001 PTPP battle, and i don't know the first thing about aid, but i will say this: i am constantly impressed with PTPP's work. no one else has such quality posts as he does. first off, he is quite a good writer, so his work generally has good vocab/syntax/good literary qualities. also, his use of bold and colo[cyan]r[/cyan][brown]e[/brown]d text makes his posts easy to skim thru. then there is the sheer volume of his work; often, his posts will take 10, 15, or more minutes to read. did i mention the helpful links he puts to all pertinant information? i never plan on getting into big wall stuff, but i will still spend an hour or more just skimming through the web of his posts, reading entertaining anecdotes, such as his two near-death caving adventrues, the incident with Tom's pig, ect... i have to take it as a matter of faith that the man knows what he is doing; check out his "reference", editor of Chongo's book, plus God-knows-how-many posts on big wall techniques and the "better way". can he free climb really hard? i dunno. there is that one pic of him bouldering in Hawaii (a really sweet picture btw) and the comment by those youngins who couldn't get up there... plus the guy has his own beer co! how cool is that!

like him or not, u gotta respect hte guy.


Partner matt


Apr 13, 2003, 5:17 PM
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In reply to:
Actually....

I think this is the perfect forum for a verbal sparring match. Isn't that THE point of the site.....to express diverse and differeing views?

No, the site is here as a place for climbers worldwide to get together and share beta, pictures, stories, find a parter, etc. It is not here merely for people to start fights over varying viewpoints. Clearly, a site this large is going to have a variety of viewpoints and perspectives coming from different socioeconomic and geopolitical backgrounds (this we encourage); however starting fights over these different viewpoints will not be tolerated.

That said, I'm locking this thread. We encourage open discussions and a free flow of ideas, but emotional or angry outbursts will not be tolerated. If there are any further questions as to our Terms of Service or why this thread is now locked, feel free to send me a PM.

Cheers,
Matt


Partner calamity_chk


Apr 13, 2003, 6:33 PM
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The thread has been unlocked and should remain that way unless or until the discussion degenerates into an inflamatory argument.

Best,
amber


Partner camhead


Apr 13, 2003, 6:41 PM
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word.


Partner calamity_chk


Apr 13, 2003, 6:43 PM
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ps, while i have gained some valuable insight from some of pete's posts, i have learned lots of really cool stuff from people who are *way* more modest about their accomplishments. as such, they have tons more of my respect.


socalclimber


Apr 13, 2003, 6:50 PM
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copperhead is a wall climber of major proportions, far better, more skilled, and way more experienced than PTPP will ever be. Haven't some of you figured out yet that the really, really good wall climbers barely ever talk about there accomplishments. Ever hear Tucker Tech spraying, ever heard Steve Gerberdine sparying, ever here Wally Barker spraying, Steve Sutton, Hugh Burton, Jeff Perrin. Christ, the list goes on and on and on. Wake up, these people help set the standards.

This is long over due. I do not for one buy for a second that all this spraying from PTPP is just an "Internet personna". It is a constant assault of self promotion.

I have long since given up on reading PTPP's posts. First, I can't stand the constant spray fest, second, there is so much random commentary mixed in, it's distracting.

Keep it up copperhead! Unless some SOULESS COWARD CENSORS YOUR THREAD!


socalclimber


Apr 13, 2003, 7:04 PM
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A quick note, not intended to cause thread drift. I AM RETRACTING MY STATEMENT OF CALLING AMBER A COWARD for locking the previous thread. She posted her reasons after I had just read the locked thread. I never saw her post!

SO, HERE IS MY OFFICIAL APPOLOGY. I'M SORRY AMBER, YOU DID THE RIGHT THING TO KEEP THIS IN ONE PLACE!
Robert


Partner calamity_chk


Apr 13, 2003, 7:16 PM
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:oops:

too kind, robert. i sincerely appreciate the apology/nod. we'll have to climb something big and scary someday.

anyways, let's start the discussion again here ..

In reply to:
copperhead is a wall climber of major proportions, far better, more skilled, and way more experienced than PTPP will ever be. Haven't some of you figured out yet that the really, really good wall climbers barely ever talk about there accomplishments. Ever hear Tucker Tech spraying, ever heard Steve Gerberdine sparying, ever here Wally Barker spraying, Steve Sutton, Hugh Burton, Jeff Perrin. Christ, the list goes on and on and on. Wake up, these people help set the standards.


copperhead


Apr 13, 2003, 7:36 PM
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Uhhh… Thanks Robert and Amber but this isn't about me. I'm just another climber sitting at a Deli table with a few words to say. Let's leave it at that.


timpanogos


Apr 13, 2003, 7:52 PM
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How does the old saying go – the best revenge is living a good life? (or in this case providing a faster, easier or “better” way)

I’ve certainly learned most of what I know about aid (ok failed my first solo attempt at a easy aid route – Prodigal Sun – because I was too darn slow) from Pete – but also realize that there are many incredible wall climbers here (like Bryan).

I would love to see another “sticky” index thread to Bryan’s way – and any others whom the site judges as Wall Doctor Level.

Another saying goes – “The pen is mightier than the sword” (or the Forum is Mightier than a singular Pete on the rock challenge).

Other wall doctor’s could/would have a good foundation – (Sticky * Index to Dr. Piton Stuff) to give their alternate styles, objections, and thumbs up or whatever – as the index is a fairly comprehensive A-Z coverage.

Just as strongly as Pete’s pride (persona or whatever) comes through – so does Bryan’s bitterness.

Man I can sure relate to both of these parties. I am as proud and arrogant as they come, and also continually allow bitterness (usually based on my our pride and arrogance) to cancer my soul.

After years of trying to drop my pride/arrogance and my bitterness to my fellow man – I still cannot succeed – The alcoholic in me I suppose – I really hate that about myself.

It’s tough (and very self destructive), ain’t it guys!

Chad


socalclimber


Apr 13, 2003, 8:02 PM
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In reply to:
Uhhh… Thanks Robert and Amber but this isn't about me. I'm just another climber sitting at a Deli table with a few words to say. Let's leave it at that.

Sorry (I seem to be saying that allot lately), I didn't quite mean it to come off that way. I guess my point is, I'm sick of all the head nodding that goes on around here. Yes PTPP, your the man PTPP etc etc etc.

Anywho, copperhead certainly hasn't posted as much info as PTPP, but what he has posted is straight forward, clear, and concise.

It is absolutely time for PTPP to put up or shut up with regards to his claim of being one of the best wall climbers in the world.


Partner tim


Apr 13, 2003, 8:20 PM
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It's also time for the people who choose to attack or support Pete, to articulate why they do so. Maybe you've met him in person, or maybe you've had an unpleasant dealing with him, or feel like his ethics aren't up to snuff.

But this thread is on the hairy edge of being a full-on ad-hominem attack, and the only thing that saves it is that Bryan has cited extremely specific reasons for his discontent. I assume that Pete will as well, if he rebuts the topic. He is, without a doubt, a competent debater and writer.

I hope that the rest of those involved in this discussion will hold themselves to the same standards. It could turn out to be an interesting study in what people regard as 'ethical'.


tenn_dawg


Apr 13, 2003, 8:25 PM
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Hear, Hear, Tim!

Everyone can abide by that. Heck we're all adults here. We should be able to properly articulate our discontent, and arguments. Childish namecalling has no place in a discussion like this.

Travis

Bryan and Pete are Dorky Nerds


kungfuclimber


Apr 13, 2003, 9:22 PM
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Bah.. I don't want to choose sides.

copperhead: you may well be a better climber than pete. You may be more humble and less inclined to spray.

pete: the personality may irritate some people but I would much rather that than you stop posting.

In short, I really don't care if pete pisses other people off. I mostly come to this site to read his posts and try his wall techniques. This "challenge" reminds me of kids daring each other to lick the frozen metal pole.


timpanogos


Apr 13, 2003, 9:39 PM
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I agree with Tim's statement

In reply to:
It's also time for the people who choose to attack or support Pete, to articulate why they do so.

I kind of agree with Tim's statement

In reply to:
Bryan has cited extremely specific reasons for his discontent

Bryan has been very clear (for some time now) on his discontent with Pete’s personality attributes. However, he as NOT been very clear with is discontent with Pete’s “Better Way”

Of late Bryan tends to respond to PTPP posts with short – passive aggressive – sarcastic one-liners. However, I have also seen Bryan respond with excellent, concise and excellent alternatives.

So, I’ll once again stand up and be counted – I personally like to follow PTPP antics, and hungrily gobble up the “Better Way” technical buried in the verbiage. I support him.

This does not preclude me from anxiously seeking other points of view and I just as anxiously look for posts from Bryan and others. How disappointing when, instead of given alternate beta – I read sarcasm.

The only real consise (and possibly correct) technical arguments that I have read Bryan respond about the better way is that it is too complex and too slow (but typically not elabortated on).

My attempted consise reasons for supporting Pete were actually given as an unspoken challege to Bryan some time ago

http://www.rockclimbing.com/....php?t=23226&start=3

So let me outright give Bryan (and others) a challenge - go through the condensed index in the above list and respond to the various technical better way concepts in the index - PLEASE give us your way to simply that which is too complex - thumbs up that which you use in your system - warning anything you find dangerous or unacceptable - Share your knowledge, share your experiences.

I give this challenge for very selfish reasons – FEED ME – I want to be successful in someday soloing a big wall and I know that you and others have the beta to help me do this. Attack the problem (technical) not the person (god like persona). Keep the Aid Forum the place on the net to come for true Better Way wall climbing techniques proven by the best – and Bryan is obviously one of the best!

Let me also give the moderators a challenge – Give those “worthy” (Bryan being one of them) a sticky post of their own – a precise, concise experienced “Other Ways” book in the RC.COM aid climbing bible would surely be a valuable addition to the book of Pete.


Chad


drkodos


Apr 13, 2003, 9:56 PM
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No sticky posts for anyone or anything......why elevate status of one over another. Timing is everything. Nothing here is that important that we need to be constantly reminded of it.....

Brevity is to be cherished.

Remember, all these posts are like farts in a hailstorm. At worst, they smell bad for a little while and then something else blows in.....

:P


kixrox


Apr 13, 2003, 10:50 PM
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The finer points regarding the pros and cons of PTPP, and all that is entailed in the grand scope of his digital persona, can apparently be debated ad nauseam.

Some of you take yourselves so seriously on the matter of some one who clearly enjoys his passion and enjoys sharing on the subject.

Perhaps all that remains may be as simple as yay or nay.

Yay to PTPP.


Naysayers have the free choice to avoid his posts. Or they can devise diabolical challenges to expose the demon who lurks amongst us.
"SHEESH"!



**

Since this topic spans several threads and this thread was momentarily locked, this post was originally posted elsewhere and moved here due to relevance to this topic. kixrox


flamer


Apr 13, 2003, 10:59 PM
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Having decided that I want to say something, but also being aware of the many good points that have already been made. The only thing I can really contribute is this.... ANYONE with a serious EGO problem need's to be "humbled" every once in awhile.
The original Poster- copperhead- real world name- Bryan Law is a very accommplished Climber.
I knew this about him before he started posting here...how did I know?
Here's how- Look back in old issue's of R&I and climbing. Now scan the Small little blurbs in the front (I can't remember what the actual section's are called). You will see his name linked to all kinds of bad ass 1st, 2nd, and just plain hard ascent's. Now, and this is key, Look at who reported this stuff...it wasn't Bryan!!! Now I will concede that I don't know Bryan personally, but the man appears to have little to NO EGO!!
My point here is not to start an "all hail copperhead" thread!!
I guess my point is you don't need to be a self promoting ego maniac to know what you're doing!!
I'm ranting so I'll stop....
josh

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