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notyetabigwaller
Apr 15, 2003, 2:45 AM
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I am working on getting set up for a bigwall. Do you need bolth a bivi-sac and a fly for your ledge. Is it safe to use one or the other and not bolth. If so which one?
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epic_ed
Apr 15, 2003, 4:09 AM
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Just spent my first night on my portaledge this weekend. Unfortunately it wasn't on the wall like I had planned, but from a tree at the base of the climb (long story). I put the fly on to get the full experience of setting up the ledge (and to keep the skeeters out), and by the morning I had some decent condensation built up on the inside. Now -- that was in Sedona where the relative humidity was way low, on a cool clear night, and I was solo. I can't imagine how much moisture builds up on a humid evening in Yosemite with two mouth-breathers sawing logs in the ledge. I can see clearly why I'm going to need a bivi sack.
Ed
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copperhead
Apr 15, 2003, 4:21 AM
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Yes, bring both, no matter what time of year. You will be happy you did if the shit hits the fan. If it's super-nasty, a puddle might form on your ledge - best to have a bivi sack in this case. No rescues.
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wallrat
Apr 15, 2003, 3:11 PM
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In good weather you won't need either a fly or a bivi sack (obviously). But when it goes to Hell, you'll need both, and a sleeping bag that isn't down. Leave the feathers for the birds.
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spike
Apr 15, 2003, 3:27 PM
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Yes.
The Bivy Sack will give you a little more warmth, plus if you fix the first 2 or 3 pitches and bivy at the base before you blast off its good to have a bivy bag.
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rockprodigy
Apr 15, 2003, 4:54 PM
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Do you need a fly if you have a bivy sack?
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spike
Apr 15, 2003, 6:23 PM
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Hi rockprodigy,
Last April Scott D. and myself spent a rainy night on Moonlight Buttress in Zion at the top of P3 - The Rocker Block. A 2 man team from Colorado arrived just before night fall and bivied below us on a lower ledge. They had a new A5 double portaledge but NO FLY. They did have bivy bags, they did OK, but it didn't look like fun. Scott D. and I had an A5 double portaledge with a rain fly plus we were inside our bivy bags. We were VERY DRY AND COMFORTABLE.
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passthepitonspete
Apr 15, 2003, 7:24 PM
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If you do not want to die, you had best bring a rain fly, synthetic pit and bivi sack. Make sure you've sealed the seams on your fly and sack if they haven't been.
Test your system under controlled conditions - like on the side of your house or in a tree. Hand the garden hose to a friend with a sense of humour, and see what happens. There are two ways to find out how waterproof your system is, and I recommend this method as the Better Way.
There is one additional item you must add to your Big Wall Checklist, and that is a Big Wall Sponge. When the rain starts coming in, using your sponge will beat the heck out of using a sock.
Note: I just got a new Big Wall Sponge from the Sponge-O-Rama in Tarpon Springs, Florida. I mean, he's a real sponge!
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valygrl
Apr 23, 2003, 5:36 AM
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I just got the OR Advanced Bivy (used, from someone on this site, thanks!) and it doesn't have the integrated tie-in loop.
Anyone use one of these on a ledge? I was toying with the idea of opening up a seam and sewing in a quickdraw or something as a tie-in point, but don't really want to violate the integrity of the bag.
Thoughts? Pete? Bryan? Ferris? ;)
Anna
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apollodorus
Apr 23, 2003, 5:50 AM
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You can tie the rope around the outside of the bivi sack and sleeping bag, but it has to be pretty tight so you can't fall out of it. A doubled bowline (two loops at the rabbit hole and two more around the tree) is pretty easy to get snug, and will stay secure.
On the other hand, the zipper of the bivi sack isn't going to be waterproof, so you can violate it there with little penalty. Seal it up with Shoe-Goo or the 2-part rubbery urethane Goldenwest (of Grass Valley, California) sells.
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russwalling
Apr 23, 2003, 6:58 AM
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In reply to: I was toying with the idea of opening up a seam and sewing in a quickdraw or something as a tie-in point, but don't really want to violate the integrity of the bag. Anna
Saw the word "violate" and just had to answer.....
Rip a seam and put a bomber tie off in there and then seal the wound with SeamGrip or somthing similar. No harm, no foul.
In reality, you don't even need to use a seam... just pick a spot and plug that thing in there.
Side note: if you have no idea how to make something bomber, email me and I'll send you a bomber tie it thingy with stacks of bartacks and all you'll have to do is slip it in to your "violation" and then quasi stitch the hole up and seal it. Let me know.
adios,
Russ
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valygrl
Apr 23, 2003, 3:43 PM
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In reply to: Saw the word "violate" and just had to answer..... Russ
Er, yeah, I thought long and hard about whether to use that word...
:roll: :oops:
Thanks for the feedback, that's what I thought too... I was thinking of just using a draw as the tie-in, maybe a little dyneema one, since they are flexible and would be less annoying for non-wall use.
Maybe if I don't get around to doing this myself I'll see if I can get you to do it, next time I'm on the East Side...
Cheers,
Anna
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copperhead
Apr 23, 2003, 5:03 PM
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I used to have a Bibler bivy sack with a tie-in point but I never used the tie-in point. I now have a Marmot bivy sack that fits me better. Make sure that there is a loop of lead line that hangs below your ledge (before it enters the fly) – this will allow water to drip off instead of flow into your ledge. A few biners can be clipped to the loop in the lead line to keep it from getting flipped up if it is windy. I stay tied into the lead line and just zip up the bivy sack as much as I need to. With a fly on the ledge, the bivy tie-in point doesn’t seem as crucial.
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brutusofwyde
Apr 23, 2003, 6:17 PM
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I still use my Bibler with tie-in. In fact, I added a 9/16" nylon tie-in through the wall of my sleeping bag as well.
Since I don't like having a big rope knot against my stomach, (feels like sleeping with my tummy against a cold redwood burl), nor the rope running out the neck of my sleeping bag, I tie the inner sleeping bag 9/16" directly to my harness. (Note: sewn dyneema will need to be clipped to your harness with a cold carabiner, and dyneema & spectra don't hold knots well) The outer end of the sleeping bag tie-in is tied directly to the inslde clip loop of the bivy sack. Then the biv is clipped to the anchors.
All this may sound like a bit of a hassle, but it simplifies sleeping considerably, and only takes a minute in the evening and morning.
Brutus
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iamthewallress
Apr 23, 2003, 6:35 PM
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Sorry about the thread drift...I've taken to wrastlin' up a harness out of a webolette for sleeping. I connect it w/ biners to runners at the anchor at some distance from my body...no rope, no hammer holster to disturb my sleep. It's not dynamic, but I've never worried about whipping out of my ledge. Is it worth worrying about such a fall if you don't put 20 feet of static slack between you and the anchor? Have any of you actually fallen out of your bivy?
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brutusofwyde
Apr 23, 2003, 7:12 PM
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See new thread: "Buried at Sea"
Brutus
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