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hack
Apr 21, 2003, 2:03 AM
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So I went back home to see the folks for Easter yesterday and decided I would take my mom climbing since she has never been. We go to the local gym in town and get started. The staff was great and very helpful, but there were not enough of them to regulate. However, the other people there were horrible.
I got my mom into her harness and starting up her first climb (it was like a 5.5 or something) and two seconds later some kid runs between the two of us and jumps on the wall and starts climbing a random route up the wall often using the holds of the route my mom was doing. My initial thought was that is was just a dumb kid who got away from his parents, but once he was a good ten feet up the wall you here his parents telling him to turn around so they can take his picture. Maybe it is just common courtesy/sense in my world to NOT do this. This type of thing happened for the entirety of the day. Several times I slipped off a hold and swung into people walking in between the wall and my belayer. It was just very frustrating and I eventually left angry.
Sorry for the rant I am just still angry about it. I am not a great climber myself so I am not mad about people being "noobs", just confused about people's lack of courtesy/general knowledge of people falling from up high so dont walk underneith them.
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lazygirl
Apr 21, 2003, 2:23 AM
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This happens a lot at my gym during kids birthday parties and such. The kids jump all over the place and the parents don't stop them because they feel they have rented out the whole place just for themselves. The problem is staff members don't teach the kids how to act in the gym. They don't know the unspoken rules and what is polite in a gym. Things like not standing under someone who is bouldering is the one that bugs me. Why don't the freaking staff members tell them to watch where they're going. It's not that hard. And some kids don't even know what is polite at all. Which just worsens the situation.
If the kids ever get in my way when I'm climbing I just ask them to move or sometimes even tell them they need to move if they or someone else is in danger. When I'm traversing I'll ask if they can wait a few seconds so I can pass and if they're already up the wall I wait till they're high enough then tell them I'm going to pass under them. I never feel bad about telling a kid to get out of my way. I'm the climber and the climbing gym is for climbers not one timers at birthday parties. As far as I'm concerned I come first. I know it sounds selfish but if I let those kids have it their way all the time I'd of gone crazy by now.
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mobhitmn
Apr 21, 2003, 2:54 AM
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I fully agree that usually the problem comes from the parent's attitudes that they own the gym, and that their children can do no wrong. However, part of the responsibilty should be put upon the shoulders of the staff who are running the party. At my gym, for a 2 hour party, the children go through a 20 minute "safety and rules" lesson before they can climb. Most parents don't argue about the loss of climbing time, and agree that the 20 minutes is well spent. However, when the staffers do see a problem (ie. kids bouldering too high, standing behind/between/under either the climber/belayer/other boulders, they make an effort to speak up. I find that most kids straighten out when they're threatened with having to sit out for the rest of the party. Even if you're not connected with the party, if it peeve's you off that much, make an effort to take the kid aside and talk to them. Most kids i see are in awe of "real climbers" at the gym, and usually respect the advice you give them.
~~good climbing~~
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dymondbak37
Apr 21, 2003, 3:45 AM
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last time i went to the gym, my friend was up on a boulder wall, and these 2 girls come walking by, and literally the instant the one blonde gets directly underneath him, he slips. it was scary, i didnt see it happen, but all i heard was like a "uhh...sorry" from my friend. he said his left thigh landed on her left shoulder. her ankle got hurt somehow, we never found out. but she started crying. come to find out, shes not only a regular, but a competitor. they reinforced DONT WALK UNDER/NEAR THE WALLS. it blows, and im sorry it happened, but she shouldve been watching.
moral- unless on the walls, stay away.
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renobdarb
Apr 21, 2003, 3:52 AM
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Hey there, hack... my advice: you live in northern California. go outside where the real climbing is.
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hack
Apr 21, 2003, 4:14 AM
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I gladly do, but like I said I was taking my mom for her first climb and thought the gym would be an appropriate place :)
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renobdarb
Apr 21, 2003, 4:30 AM
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I took my mom climbing awhile ago, too... i took her to a place outside.
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camhead
Apr 21, 2003, 4:35 AM
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one more complaint about "those damned kids."
The last time I attempted to go to my gym on a weekend, these little snot nosed brats kept dipping into my chalk pot. I wouldn't have minded if I had had more chalk, if it had been regulars, or even if they had asked (I'm a nice guy, eh?). However, they never asked. The first time they did it, i asked them please not to. they gave me a really dumb north texas stare. Several times later, I saw them dipping as I was climbing! finally, I yelled at one of them; just a simple, loud "HEY!" his mom gave me a really dirty look.
anyway, yeah, pizza party kids suck. I'm saving up to get a vasectomy so I won't have to deal with my own brats, and in the meantime, I'll be setting chalk bags all over my gym with mousetraps inside them.
grrrr....
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mzllr
Apr 21, 2003, 6:36 AM
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In reply to: one more complaint about "those damned kids." The last time I attempted to go to my gym on a weekend, these little snot nosed brats kept dipping into my chalk pot.
dude, that's the most annoying $hit. and i'm the same way, if they would have asked, i wouldn't have cared. but just the fact that the parents show no regard in teaching their kids to respect other people's property (i know my dad spanked/yelled/grounded me for acting like that as a kid... and i learned pretty quickly not to). the kids are being kids, but the parents i would like to kick in the throat.
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robmcc
Apr 21, 2003, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: last time i went to the gym, my friend was up on a boulder wall, and these 2 girls come walking by, and literally the instant the one blonde gets directly underneath him, he slips. it was scary, i didnt see it happen, but all i heard was like a "uhh...sorry" from my friend.
Too polite. :)
I haven't fallen on anyone yet, but it reminds me of this time I was leaving work late at night, push open the door on the dark loading dock, but rather than feel it bump into the wall, I feel this...squishyness. Turns out this young woman (20s, I suppose, not that it matters) was standing behind the door. I apologized, to which why said "Maybe I should move. That's the second time that's happened." Ok, no sympathy, then. I chuckled and said, "Yeah. Maybe.", but I couldn't help but think "No, you just stay there until it happens a few more times. You and Darwin have a date in the next few years, I think."
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mwbtle
Apr 21, 2003, 4:05 PM
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I try to ignore the kids...the one gym I frequent has a separate area for parties, which I love.
Anecdotally though, my worst experience was with a boy scout troop. The one scout master was yelling encouragement at the boys, loudly, and telling them they couldn't come down until they got past a certain point, and generally sweating all over the gym, and smelling bad... I quickly decided to go boulder, so my partner and I worked some problems, and then one of the older scouts suddenly latched on to us. He talked and talked. I didn't mind too much, but he'd come over when we were spotting each other and talk to the spotter and generally just stand in the fall zone. I had to launch myself sideways when I fell to avoid him. so I ended up about 3 feet to the right of the problem I was working, flat on my back, because my spotter didn't expect me to launch myself. Fortunately I was alright...I should have said something to the kid, but I was too angry to think about that.
edited to say: worst experience with kids at the gym...
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mother_sheep
Apr 21, 2003, 4:07 PM
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Damned kids? More like damned adults. I took my kiddos to the gym on Sat AM. I was able to climb but at the same time, I remained in constant control of them. It wasn't easy but they adjusted well. When I see kids running around the gym, acting like animals, it irritates me. Parents who can't control or don't care to control their kids in that sort of enviornment, have no place in the gym. I can't believe the common sense that some parents lack. It drives me nuts!!! Its not just for the safety of their kiddos that they should be concerned with but also for the safety and well being of the other climbers in the gym or outside.
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bandycoot
Apr 21, 2003, 4:22 PM
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I say they are just self propelled mobile crashpads. Why launch yourself away from then while falling when you can teach them a valuable lesson about gravity? :D
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dingus
Apr 21, 2003, 4:31 PM
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That's it??? That's your worst experience ever?
I got a paper cut once. Man did I suffer.
DMT
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mother_sheep
Apr 21, 2003, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: I got a paper cut once. Man did I suffer.
Flashbacks from the movie Jackass are coming to mind. OUCH!!!!!!!!!
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bitsofsod
Apr 21, 2003, 4:57 PM
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Out of control kids in gyms are terribly annoying. I've had to rip my chalkbag out of the mits of some kid while I was in the cave -- for some reason he must have thought he had more of a right to it than me. I've seen kids lining up to take running jumps into the pads in the cave, doing flips and stuff. I've seen gobs of unsafe practices and behaviors.
On the other hand, the kids are in the gyms to stay. If you have to climb in a gym, odds are you'll be faced with kids out of the economics of the situation: gyms make money off of those birthday parties and scouting events.
I don't have much experience with kids, but I figure they're gonna do whatever they can get away with (that's pretty much how I remember it from when I was one). Neither they nor their parents understand that a gym isn't a playground. Neither know the etiquette or rules. They are there to let their rugrats run around and have a good time. The gym staff handling the parties are probably low paid teenagers (who may not climb), who are struggling to deal with the situation.
We know we can't count on the clueless parents. They gym staff probably has its hands full. The kids ain't gonna watch themselves
I suppose that how we choose to react (if we have to climb in gyms) is up to us. I was annoyed as hell when I had to rip my bag away from that brat and wasn't in the mood to explain. I did tell the staff about the flips into the cave pads and the staff put a quick end to that. Perhaps the onus is upon the climbers to react as the civilized ones. Some words to those kids who were climbing near your mother about staying away while she was on the way could have avoided the situation. Telling the kids that only one/two/whatever people are allowed in the cave at a time will keep them out.
The experienced climbers should model appropriate behavior for these brats. Not only does it put a better face on climbers in general, but if push came to shove, gym owners may push out the more experienced climbers rather than the kiddies.
But hey, just a thought. :)
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jackvoodoo
Apr 24, 2003, 1:37 PM
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Ok, it seems like none of you work at a indoor gym, if you do, i'm sorry if i missed your post.
I work at my local gym. I'm one of those staffers that doesn't yell at the kids...anymore. Why? Because my throat hurts from yelling at them all day long. Also from the fact that I have already told them a million times to not do something, they'll just think is funny and do it again. Working parties is just a really bad babysitting job. The anguish of belaying for those kids is something I hope you may never experience. Once the age reach the double digits, they're ok, sometimes, cause they aren't deaf and can actually comprehend English, but anything under 10 is hell on wheels. If anything, I want to kill the parents that born them. They either watch and pretend they're blind or they were focusing on talking to other parents. I also hate those parents that yells at me or my fellow belayers when their kids bangs on the wall a little bit, like on their knees or elbows, when I already showed them the proper way to come down from a wall. Grrr the anguish!!! :evil:
This one time I was working, it was one of those long days that I just hope it would be over soon. My mood wasn't right at all because of the previous parties, but was kept under control. So in this party, I was belaying, I took a seat on the tire-covered floor and sort of lay onto my back as the kid was trying to climb up(not moving up at all though, he was struggling). Then I saw this kid comes up to me, looked at me on the ground, smiled just a little and kicked me in the head. It wasnt hard, it didn't hurt, but I just completely flipped out. I didn't care who was around me I just started to curse out the kid, he was probably 8 years old, but I just couldn't stop myself at the moment until I ran out of breath. I felt bad afterwards, but come on, you just don't kick someone in the head when they're on the ground. :?
Kids taking chalk is a very annoying thing. Especially with boy scouts. Aren't scouts suppose to learn not to do that kind of stuff already? Shouldn't they already have the deciplines? They get badges for doing nice things, right? So why in the name of god do they take my chalk?!?
Yea, I still work at my gym. I get to climb there for free any time I want. I get gears half off. That's why I'm still there. I'm still a poor bastard even working, so I need all the help that i can get. :lol:
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michhiker
Apr 24, 2003, 3:10 PM
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Ok, I feel your pain. I agree that you shouldn't have to babysit someone elses kids. I have a 4 year old daughter that climbs and she knows if she screws around we are outta there. However, there are a couple of things the other posters haven't mentioned yet. Remember first of all these kids are the future of our sport. If they don't learn right pretty soon they will be outside screwing up access for the rest of us. So if you want to make sure they learn right we have to accept some responsibility to teach them correctly. After all, like someone else said, the parents probably don't know the first thing about climbing. Also, remember that you have the best chance to teach them the way they should act according to local customs and practices. Use the opprotunity to make a bad situation better rather than just bitc&ing about it. Look on the bright side, mentor those kids and in a few years you are almost promised a number of willing belay rats!
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corpse
Apr 24, 2003, 3:22 PM
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yer right michhiker.. You can always tell the climbing parents from the not - the climber parent has gobbs of patience! If I see kids at the gym goofing off to the point where they will get hurt or be hurt, I'll step in and say something nice.. I'll even offer my chalk if I see a kid having trouble from sweaty hands. And I've had to stearnly tell kids not to do stuff - like climbing under me. I told a kid not to climb under ppl in the cave or else they can fall and crush them, so he ran and told his parents - I listened carefully to the parents say "he's a real rock climber, you better listen" lol And ya know, if the kids still don't listen I'd escalate the situation to the parent directly.. And don't forget - graphic injury stories are good too at gettin the rowdy ones to calm down.
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c_kryll
Apr 24, 2003, 5:27 PM
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I work full time at my gym and I hear your pain when you complain about the kids. I've found that even with posting rules and highlighting them that most parents still do not read them let alone have the kids read them. I've made it a point now that at the beginning of each party I go over a few ground rules so that there are no misunderstandings later. I've had no problems asking unruly kids to sit down after repeated warnings and the few parents that have said something to me have understood just as soon as I explained that "Little Johnny did not head my warnings" and the safety reasons behind the rules.
Chris
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shivers86
Apr 24, 2003, 11:24 PM
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i too am an under paid teenage belay-slave and I can relate with everyone here. I'm picking up good tips to include in my pre-climb safety talk with b-day parties. thanx all
When I see kids bein a brat I yell at them to stop, or politely ask them to stop if there's a potential tip involved from the parents. If I don't adress the situation the General Manager will come out and yell at the kid, the parent and I for not yelling at the kid. The General Manager yells alot louder than I.
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apolobamba
Apr 24, 2003, 11:43 PM
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I don't mind kids as much as f()cking theives at Rocreation in LA. Someone stole my green patagonia fleece pullover. I was not climbing more the 15 feet away from it all night.
I wish I could shank that SOB.
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roseraie
Apr 25, 2003, 12:09 AM
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It's already been brought up that without those birthday parties and scout groups and families, your gym would not be so nice... they do not make their money on memberships, believe me.
Maybe it's because I learned to climb as a counselor at summer camp, but I do not have so many problems with kids in the gym. Most kids are apologetic if you're nice to them about what they're doing wrong. For example, if you had said something to the child who was climbing on a route close to your mother's, I bet he would have apologized and moved, he probably didn't realize it. Children don't weigh consequences before they begin to act, that's the biggest difference between them and adults. I've had kids touching my rope or walking underneath me when I'm bouldering, and when I ask them not to and warn them what could happen, they apologize and are considerably better behaved the rest of their time in the gym.
As for the chalk... a lot of gyms I've been to have communal chalk bags that birthday parties can use. If you have a chalk bucket sitting on the ground, they probably don't realize that it is a personal belonging of yours.
They're kids. Yeah, they can be a freakin' pain in the butt (ask any camp counselor, we all have hundreds of stories) but they have every right to enjoy their gym experiences. If they're bugging you, ask them to stop whatever they're doing. If you're nice about it, it won't anger their parents.
And if you want to avoid them altogether, try climbing at a college or university gym. I know my gym pretty much never has kids in it.
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henkelj
Apr 25, 2003, 12:58 AM
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I hate those damn boy scouts! They are always the worst behaved kids. They should start them off with the "I didn't piss anyone off today" badge.
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kellebelle
Apr 25, 2003, 1:31 AM
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I also have many annoying kid stories for I am a belay-slave. But what really annoyed me one time was not when I was working but climbing. Theres was an older guy and his two kids (about 10) climbing right next to me. I noticed about half way up, that climbing the route they were, they were on the wrong rope, the climber was tied into where the belayer should be tied into because some tied the figure 8 on the wrong side, and the rope was very twisted at the top. The climber comes down and I figure he would have noticed everything he had wrong and fixed it so I didnt say anything. He obviously didnt notice because he untied the climber and started tieing in the other climber with this same set up! I decided to just point out all that was wrong to him before she started to climb, but he just stared at me and said "You think I didnt realize that? Of course I did but I know what im doing. It was like that when I came here and thought it easiest to just leave it like that." I reminded him that it would only take a minute or two if he cared to fix it. But he just replied in the same disgusted tone, "That's ok, but I think I'll just leave it little girl." I was so angered and appaled that he wouldnt listen to me or change it even though HE knew it was wrong! I really hate people who think they know what their doing, are too lazy to fix what they know is wrong, or just disrespect me cause Im younger.
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