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climbingbetty22
Apr 24, 2003, 4:17 AM
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So climbing tends to be a male-oriented sport. I enjoy climbing with my guy friends, but sometimes I really wish I had a group of close female friends to climb with. I long for close friendships with other women, but I find this difficult. For one, I don't feel like I get along with alot of other girls just because they are way too prissy. I don't wear make-up, I don't fuss over my hair, and my clothing labels are stuff like Prana, Mountain Hardwear and Marmot, not Gucci and whatever the hell else women are supposed to wear. At the same time, when I meet other climber chicks, if they aren't so involved with their boyfriend that they have no time for anyone else, then they seem to go into this instant defensive mode, as if I'm a threat to their circle of guys that they climb with. I just get the sense that I'm invading and definitely not wanted around.
I'm wonderin' what are your thoughts on the subject? Is it just the age I'm at? Do any of you all have a group of close female friends that climb together or is it just the nature of the beast, just the way this sport is? :?:
betty
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argurl
Apr 30, 2003, 6:55 PM
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this is definitely a tough one, although i'm fairly certain it has nothing to do with age (unfortunately) :(
i'm in my middle to later 20's and hang w/ gals ranging from about 23-40. i'm sad to say that all but about 1-2 of them are NOT "high-maintenance." make-up, clothes...the works. this has been such a frustrating thing for me lately.
hanging with the guys is cool, but just like girls, guys have their own "lingo" etc., that girls will just never be a part of.
i've encountered girls being protective of their guy climbing circles too, and sometimes just attitude about being cool b/c they climb. i'm starting to ramble. (you should hear me tell my climbing partner about this)
i feel certain, though, that there are gals out there who just want to climb, etc., but it is hard finding them in a specific area.
if you're waiting for a revelation from me, well, sorry, don't have one. just wanted to let you know that there are a few of us out here that feel the same way. good luck finding some cool grrls in your area. until then, beer helps. :D
just kidding, keep climbing, we'll all have our day!
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mwbtle
Apr 30, 2003, 7:09 PM
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Well...tough question.
I went to an all girls high school. Now I find that the only girls I REALLY get along well with and can form close friendships with, are ones that either went to an all-girls school, or are the outdoor type of climber...not gym bunnies.
And even then, I don't get along with all outdoor types. I don't know, it depends on so much. Most of my close friends are guys. For awhile I was super protective of them, until I became ONE of the guys. As soon as that happened, I didn't care about other girls, because they were no longer "competition."
Girls in this day and age are so competitive even when they are sweet to each others faces. Its all about having the better boyfriend, or the most attention from guys or whatever. So if you can meet girls who are one of the guys, and don't feel they need the attention from the guys, you'll probably find that they are welcoming and crude. :) If thats your thing, then you'll have a good friend.
I think I'm being kind of circular, but I hope this was kind of what you were looking for.
I said recently to my boyfriend "boys are so much more fun than girls" When I say girls, I mean the prissy girly types... You just have to find like minded girls...because not all tom-boys are actually tom-boys...some are girly girls in disguise.
Oh...and I wish I had a bunch of girls to climb with regularly...all my female partners live decently far away...I usually just climb with my boyfriend.
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pachiz
Apr 30, 2003, 7:26 PM
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I know EXACTLY how you feel.
Guys get too macho for me, it's all about being the best or strongest, and it pisses me off. Women are much more easy going.
I am like you, no make up or extravegant clothing for me. I keep my hair short so I don't have to mess with it.
I don't think you're alone. Too bad I live in Toronto :?
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sroehlk
Apr 30, 2003, 7:57 PM
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I think in general it's hard to find other girls to climb with, because you're right, it is such a male dominated sport. The original group I climbed with was me, one other girl (who I've become great friends with) and four other guys. Over the past year or so I've met a few other girls who climb and I'm gradually building up a nice circle. I still climb with a lot of guys and they're all tons of fun! I went on a trip this past weekend and it was definitely testosterone driven even with a few of us girls there!
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cruzit
Apr 30, 2003, 8:23 PM
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Ya know, as a rule, I don't generally hang out with other women. I don't understand them. Most are really high maintenance, emotional and act really silly around guys. (I know...I'm stereotyping). But as a 40+ female who is into extreme sports...skydiving, rock climbing, alpine mountaineering...it's hard to develop meaningful relationships with other women...most of whom think I'm nuts anyway.
Having said that, I have found a lot of women (not the posers) who enjoy and participate in the same activities as I. These gals are usually the type of people I want to hang out/skydive/climb with. Maybe the gals you are running into that are getting all defensive with you are just in it for the guy...if you know what I mean. Keep looking...we like minded females are out there :)
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indigo_nite
Apr 30, 2003, 10:06 PM
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In reply to: sometimes I really wish I had a group of close female friends to climb with. I long for close friendships with other women, but I find this difficult.
my best climbing partner so far was a lady. we only climbed 2x, while she was on break from park service work. while our friendship wasn't deep, we both wanted to climb similar things and due to ego (but not in a destructive sense), we pushed each other to climb harder than before we met.
In reply to: they seem to go into this instant defensive mode, as if I'm a threat to their circle of guys that they climb with.
I've sensed this with and without climbers. I think it's an instinct thing. it could help to suss out who has vibes toward whom. I think any group is afraid of change.
In reply to: Is it just the age I'm at? Do any of you all have a group of close female friends that climb together or is it just the nature of the beast, just the way this sport is?
women can be as competitive as men. it's just less overt or about less simple traits I think. I think climbing lends to competitive spirit (that's what I see mostly) although I try to keep a tension b/t self-competition/social/recreation needs.
the other thing I feel about women and competition. maybe before entering a male-dominated workforce, we used to bond w/ other women by letting our guard down. at work, you don't bond or "prove yourself" by letting your guard down. so maybe at play, it comes less naturally. I guess maybe I'm thinking don't limit yourself to close friendships in climbing. be grateful for them in whatever context and if they happen on the rock, more power to you.
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runbikeclimb
Apr 30, 2003, 10:15 PM
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I have this problem too. My Husband insists on guy time and wants to leave me with the wives!! We have gotten into numerous arguments about why I want to go along with the guys instead (duh!! they are climbing, running, biking etc... and i am with prissy moms!!)
I too long for "cool" friends... so anyone who wants to have girl time that involves climbing, running, biking please let me know!!!
PS. I'm in Oshkosh, WI right now
Rebekah
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farmgirl
Apr 30, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Okay, so we all have the same problem, but just how do you set someone else's mind at ease that you are not out to upset the heirarchy of the group? Don't want to steal the boys, that you just want to climb? Truth be told, most women intimidate the h*ll out of me, since it's been my unfortunate experience that many women involved in sports at a non-elite level, can be catty, shallow, and cruel. Seems easier to climb with the guys since they are only interested in talking about routes, gear, beer, and sex.
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footoo
Apr 30, 2003, 11:42 PM
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I always enjoyed climbing with a girl partner, but I do admit I would get a tad bit jealous it there was something she could climb and I couldn't. :oops:
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calamity_chk
May 1, 2003, 12:24 AM
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maybe i'm just too much of a new age hippie for my own good, but i honestly dont approach friendships and climbing partners with gender in mind.
my closest friends have always been guys, and although i dont really "mind" being around women, i dont really long for their companionship. granted, i have female friends whose companionship i miss at times -- but it's the person that i miss, not the fact that i want to hang out with other women.
sorry for the lack of help,
amber
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enigma
May 1, 2003, 6:22 AM
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In reply to: Okay, so we all have the same problem, but just how do you set someone else's mind at ease that you are not out to upset the heirarchy of the group? Don't want to steal the boys, that you just want to climb? Truth be told, most women intimidate the h*ll out of me, since it's been my unfortunate experience that many women involved in sports at a non-elite level, can be catty, shallow, and cruel. Seems easier to climb with the guys since they are only interested in talking about routes, gear, beer, and sex.
I definately think there are great women to climb with, ones whom are sincere and supportive. In each climbing relationship someone will probably be the stronger one. If you are the less advanced women,try to get support and allow yourself not to be intimidated but to learn from the other women. :idea:
This past week I climbed with two different women I met, both were stronger leaders than me, but extremely positive and helpful.
8) \
In fact I ran into a women I met a year ago, who went from leading 5.6 to 5.11 after spending the winter climbing in j.tree. I didn't get to climb with her,but she was also humble and interested in sharing her skills and techniques.
I just think there are less climbing women out there, so its more remarkable to find a good climbing partner, and a personality match. 8)
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farmgirl
May 1, 2003, 1:20 PM
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no, no, no, enigma, don't misunderstand me. I'm not intimidated by folks who climb harder than me, not at all. What does intimidate me is how some girls' fears manifest themselves...classic examples are your posts worrying about a girl wearing makeup while climbing and the other calling some people "poser" because of some made up code of ethics. What did you hope to accomplish except pass judgement and name call?
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jackvoodoo
May 1, 2003, 2:42 PM
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hey, so i'm a guy reading this, just in case you wonder...sorry if I'm a bother.
I have a question, what's with this about you ladies being protective, or defense about your circle of guy friends that you climb with? Like, what's to protect? Do you feel that way when there's a new girl in town and just trying to make friends, or does it happen when you're at comps where there are lots of girls around, or something else? (there's only 2 girls in my gym that boulders hard, so I climb w/ them, or they climb w/ me) I'm just not understanding this, so if you can, help me learn.
-Jack
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missedyno
May 1, 2003, 5:22 PM
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yeah... i climb with my boyfriend/partner.... but it would be cool to have a girl friend.
my best girlfriend is in africa for a year....
any girls i've met since... they seem okay at first but then are kind of psycho.
and excuuuuuuuuuse me if i'm judging by looks or whatever but i don't want to climb with a prima donna. whether they are male or female.
i also found that since i have such a stable relationship with my guy that i don't fit in with other girls so well. most i meet label guys i.e. "why are all men stupid, etc" or complain about guys "why won't he call me, does he think i'm fat" and i just can't put up with it. there are a bunch of girls that all climb together at the gym and it looks like they're having fun except that they're off toproping while their boyfriends are climbing together. i'd much rather climb with my man... we get along great, know each other well and well, that's about it. he's my ideal climbing partner and just so happens to be my life partner as well. lucky me!
however, i do agree about the weird "i'm threatened" thing that girls do. i don't think it's age or climbing ability or anything like that, but rather must have something to do with self confidence?
one girl i was friends with briefly always put me down and made fun of EVERYTHING i said. do i need to put up with that? heck no!
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lemur
May 1, 2003, 5:34 PM
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Just as my own two cents, I'd like to add (as a guy) I'm generally sick of hanging around with other guys. After 4 years of Rowing in college, I had enough "male bonding" to last me for the rest of my life.
I find that most of the climbing women are generally nice and supportive of each other. Our group all met in a gym training over the winter. I find about 2/3rds of the guys who climb can be cocky or arrogant, not someone I want to hang around.
Just tossing out the fact that it's not easy for guys to find good "parners in crime."
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granite_grrl
May 1, 2003, 7:02 PM
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Wish I could meet more females that I like. I don't have much oppurtuity, not many girls in my classes at school, places I've worked or will work, or in the sports that I do. I don't mind hanging with the guys, but sometimes it's really nice to have a girl around.
My two best lady buds are great. One says that she want to road trip with me next winter when we graduate down to the southern states. She's also doing kyakying this summer. The other is into Basket ball and coaches a young girl's volley ball team. She doesn't seek out climbing by herself, but she's gone out with me both biking and climbing (no worries of getting muddy there).
As for the protection of the guys, well I've never had issues with the established group of friends, but earlier this year me and the first girl friend I talked about were both single and having issues about hanging with some folks at the new gym we were climbing at. We pretty much realized that we were idiots and stopped that pretty quick. (also that the guys there were not worth any effort at all, we each found our selves something that was a little more suited to our tastes).
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farmgirl
May 1, 2003, 7:07 PM
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I don't understand...when you admit that you judge people by their looks because you don't want to climb with prima donas, you imply that only attractive people are prima donas...that's a laugh. Not to mention you eliminate the possibility for some really interesting friendships if you are dismissing folks based on their looks.
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runbikeclimb
May 1, 2003, 7:53 PM
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In reply to: Have you ever felt jealous of other males he climbs with? This is something I am struggling with. I am not jealous of other women but fear that his climbing buddies will steal my partner and that he'll end up wanting to climb with them more than me.... This might seem childish, but i am having trouble over coming this fear.... any thought out there women?? (Or men??) Rebekah |
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enigma
May 1, 2003, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: no, no, no, enigma, don't misunderstand me. I'm not intimidated by folks who climb harder than me, not at all. What does intimidate me is how some girls' fears manifest themselves...classic examples are your posts worrying about a girl wearing makeup while climbing and the other calling some people "poser" because of some made up code of ethics. What did you hope to accomplish except pass judgement and name call?
I think you misunderstand my intentions on my threads,perhaps you take things too personally??? I write threads and posts based on real life situations I've encountered while climbing. :wink: :idea:
I am curious,and find it interesting to hear others views on these subjects. By the responses, it would also suggest that others also like to express their opinions. You don't have to respond, and surely can think of subjects that you want to discuss,and post as well. :roll:
I've climbed with other women and find many of them to be extremely helpful and positive, especially in respect to leading. I only wish I knew more of them whom are available to climb with regularly.I am not intimidated by them . :idea:
On the contrary, I have much respect and admiration for their accomplishments, and would enjoy a women mentor to show me their methods and give me more confidence in the realm of leading. Perhaps you didn't read my thread "Ladies Let Lead".
:?: :?: :?: :roll:
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winter
May 1, 2003, 11:04 PM
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I also get along way better with guys than I do with girls, and usually I like climbing with guys better than with girls. I know I think more like a guy than a girl when it comes to relationships and sex adn drinking and partying. I dont' do makeup or girly stuff during the day and definitly not while climbing. That being said, I am fully prepared, for the sake of a good laugh to get totally dolled up (hair and makeup) and put on a slutty top and go out with my gang of girlfriends. None of the girls that I hang out with do the makeup or girly clothes but sometimes we find it fun to pretend to be "real girls" for a night. It's hysterical, especially when we realise that some people are actually like that all teh time.
I have this strange multi friend groups thing going on where I have diferent groups for each thing I do. I have my climbing friends (all guys), my snowboarding friends (boys too), then my friends from university (guys and girls, gossip and patying), and finally my (horse)riding friends (all girls). I dont' care if my girlfriends come climbing, or my climbing friends come partying, it seems to work quite well.
I do find that some days though, the climbing boys are way more into how hard of a route they can do than I am...I am happy climbing easy stuff all day as long as I am outside, that's what matters to me the most.
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jaylaka
May 2, 2003, 5:47 AM
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i'm lucky in the sense that i've gotten several of my best girlfriends into climbing, but all my more experienced climber friends still are boys. i'm hoping to get more time on real rock this summer at devils lake, maybe even some girls-only excursions. (and i think that a couple of you are in the illinois/wisconsin area...wanna come? :D )
i think that you tend to stumble into your closest friends - for example, i've met each of my best friends and felt an instantaneous/incredible connection. sometimes you just come across people that you CLICK with, you know? :wink:
jen
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farmgirl
May 2, 2003, 4:35 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: no, no, no, enigma, don't misunderstand me. I'm not intimidated by folks who climb harder than me, not at all. What does intimidate me is how some girls' fears manifest themselves...classic examples are your posts worrying about a girl wearing makeup while climbing and the other calling some people "poser" because of some made up code of ethics. What did you hope to accomplish except pass judgement and name call? I think you misunderstand my intentions on my threads,perhaps you take things too personally??? I write threads and posts based on real life situations I've encountered while climbing. :wink: :idea: I am curious,and find it interesting to hear others views on these subjects. By the responses, it would also suggest that others also like to express their opinions. You don't have to respond, and surely can think of subjects that you want to discuss,and post as well. :roll: I've climbed with other women and find many of them to be extremely helpful and positive, especially in respect to leading. I only wish I knew more of them whom are available to climb with regularly.I am not intimidated by them . :idea: On the contrary, I have much respect and admiration for their accomplishments, and would enjoy a women mentor to show me their methods and give me more confidence in the realm of leading. Perhaps you didn't read my thread "Ladies Let Lead". :?: :?: :?: :roll:
I don't take your threads personally...but real life experience? Come on, makeup and who can call themselves "climber"....can't you think of something more relevant to the "real" world than that? Must it be shallow and incendiary? Yeah, yeah, I know I don't have to read this drivel, let alone respond to it...guess it's just a slow day at work.
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sroehlk
May 2, 2003, 4:42 PM
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Hi Jen!
I'm close (well 3 1/2 from the lake) so if you're heading that way let me know! I think a couple of us girls are heading up May 17...maybe. I'll let you know if we do. I love it up there and I'm having a hard time at work right now. Last week at this time I was climbing on college wall and now I'm sitting up high, but in an office building.
Stephanie
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enigma
May 2, 2003, 7:10 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: no, no, no, enigma, don't misunderstand me. I'm not intimidated by folks who climb harder than me, not at all. What does intimidate me is how some girls' fears manifest themselves...classic examples are your posts worrying about a girl wearing makeup while climbing and the other calling some people "poser" because of some made up code of ethics. What did you hope to accomplish except pass judgement and name call? I think you misunderstand my intentions on my threads,perhaps you take things too personally??? I write threads and posts based on real life situations I've encountered while climbing. :wink: :idea: I am curious,and find it interesting to hear others views on these subjects. By the responses, it would also suggest that others also like to express their opinions. You don't have to respond, and surely can think of subjects that you want to discuss,and post as well. :roll: I've climbed with other women and find many of them to be extremely helpful and positive, especially in respect to leading. I only wish I knew more of them whom are available to climb with regularly.I am not intimidated by them . :idea: On the contrary, I have much respect and admiration for their accomplishments, and would enjoy a women mentor to show me their methods and give me more confidence in the realm of leading. Perhaps you didn't read my thread "Ladies Let Lead". :?: :?: :?: :roll: I don't take your threads personally...but real life experience? Come on, makeup and who can call themselves "climber"....can't you think of something more relevant to the "real" world than that? Must it be shallow and incendiary? Yeah, yeah, I know I don't have to read this drivel, let alone respond to it...guess it's just a slow day at work.
This was real life!!! Obviously you haven't read many of my threads, they are revelant and based on what I have seen at the crags.I've climbed at many different areas and their is quite a diversity of experiences out there.
:idea:
I'm sure there are many topics that I have written about that would be in your own experiences while climbing. If not, perhaps you are spending too much time at work and not climbing enough???? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Maybe you need to make some friendships with women as well. :roll:
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