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questions about gear aid.
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fiend


Dec 29, 2001, 8:52 PM
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questions about gear aid.
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wow, look at me, I'm in the aid forum!!

(smells funny in here )



Ok, seriously got some quick questions....

making aiders but not sure how many steps I need, with the webbing I have I can easily tie nice 3 step aiders but was thinking of buying longer pieces to make 4 or 5 steps. What are the main differences between 4 and 6 step aiders? I'm just doing simple TR gear aid for now and am wondering how many steps I'm really going to actually use.

Also, how long of a daisy do I need? I have two 4' daisies, is that excessive? my mom is planning on using 3footers, maybe it's a size thing?

Any tips or advice would be welcome.


wigglestick


Dec 29, 2001, 10:02 PM
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Hey fiend- Glad to see one more is going to move over to the dark side. I am by no means an expert in these and people like PTPP and atg200 and pinscar can probably answer your question better but I will put my own 2 cents in anyway. You will want your daisy chains to be long enough so that when they are girth-hitched to your harness you can still clip something at full arms reach i.e. you don't want your daisy to limit how high you can clip a piece. I am not exactly sure how long mine are but 4' sounds about right. Better too long than too short. same advice goes for aiders. If you are only going to do the occasional aid move you can get away with some shorter ones. I have seen some 4-step aiders that are used primaily for alpine climbing because they are lighter. Also the more steps you have the more they are going to hook onto every single feature, nook and cranny on the route which is kind of a pain in the a$$. So for the occasional aid move I would say 4-step is probably the minimum. For full-blown aid climbing get 6-step. You want to be able to test your top piece while keeping your body as low as possible which is why the longer aiders are nice. It sounds like you are planning on making your own aiders so you can experiment with different lengths on TR to figure out what works best.

[ This Message was edited by: wigglestick on 2001-12-29 22:09 ]


passthepitonspete


Dec 30, 2001, 9:41 AM
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What the.......?

Fiend is making aiders??

Oh, please!

Well, as Jeff points out, you can click here to learn the BETTER WAY.

However, sometimes the better way may actually be the cheaper way, depending on your financial state at the time.

[Speaking of which, my financial state at this moment is pretty bleak since much of my net worth now resides in the hands of my lawyers and my ex-wife....



...good thing I bought so much aid stuff a few years ago, eh?]

Mom must have pretty short arms, eh? You need your daisies to be full arms-length as wigglestick mentions.

Ideally, you want four aiders, but you can get away with three. But if you're going to all that work, you might as well tie up four.

If you can convince Reid to let us use them in the gym, I can show you the whole deal. There is very much an art and science to moving up on hard aid, so you don't end up killing yourself. I still need to write the part about actually climbing with the things, don't I?

Right.

Homemade tied aiders are a time -honoured tradition and do actually work. I climbed my first big wall with aiders that I tied myself, but after fighting the knots for 3300', I decided there really did have to be a better way! The main disadvantage with homemade aiders is that the knots are always getting stuck in cracks!

Sheesh.

This may sound a bit daft (but then that's what aid climbing is all about...) but the harder the aid, the longer your aiders need to be!

[Note: this positive correlation between aider length and difficulty of the climb also exists between difficulty of the climb and the size of your balls (or ovaries) ]

Sometimes, on aid that is PDH, you may need to make up a twelve-step aider! When things get THAT hard, you know it's also DFU. To read about a PDH/DFU climb that I made where I
needed to use a twelve-step aider, then you can click here. You will note that my body would have been cleaved in half had I blown that particular twelve-step aider move. This is one of those times when your gonads shrivel to the size of barleycorns.

If you are not very scared, then you might even be able to get away with four-step aiders. If you are quite scared, then five-steppers may do the trick.

But since being scared sh*tless is a normal part of the aid climbing experience, then Dr. Pee'd On recommends you use two pairs of aiders with each pair on its own daisy.

On each daisy you will mount one five-step aider and one six-step aider, and you will attach them with a locker and a keylock standard as the Doctor has prescribed in the post linked above. The benefit of having one six-stepper is that you can get low when you are bounce-testing a piece. The benefit of having one five-stepper is that it weighs less.

MAKE SURE YOUR AIDERS ARE DIFFERENT COLOURS!

This will be of enormous assistance not only when you are climbing them, but when you are fighting the knots out of cracks.

If you buy NOTHING ELSE, (you cheap bastard!) buy a Kong-Bonatti adjustable fifi and rig it exactly as shown. You can make this up for about ten bucks and you will save yourself thousands of dollars' worth of heartache!

If you can find one of these things up here in like The Great White North, eh? then be sure to tell me where - I've always had to order them from the Merricans.

Cheers,

Dr. Pee'd On

Oh, uh - and about that smell, eh?

......like that's me, eh? I've been on the wall too long, and haven't had a solar-powered shower since last week.

Sorry.....

P.S. to Fiend - OK, now you have to go back to my profile and vote me up from the zero which I expect (and indeed hope!) you did give me up to a solid 5 where I believe I belong - 5 out of 5 for technical precision in my posts, and zero for my popularity!



Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!! [diabolical]Dr. Evil
laughter]








[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2001-12-30 10:01 ]


fiend


Dec 30, 2001, 10:28 AM
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I voted you much higher than 0 at the outset, but if you're gonna whine about it then maybe I'll reconsider and drop my vote a little bit...


atg200


Dec 30, 2001, 10:43 AM
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fiend,

make sure you get adjustable daisy chains. they are worth their weight in gold, and are much more forgiving to aid beginners, especially on roofs and traverses. my old looped daisys have sat in the bottom of my closet since i got the adjustables.

i'd say go with a 4 and a 5 if you are making aiders. when you start aiding for real you'll want to buy them(i like the stiffeners and lack of knots in commerical aiders-much more comfortable), and by then you'll have a better idea of what you like.

andrew


fiend


Dec 30, 2001, 10:51 AM
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well, I'm just doing plain ol gear aid to get more solid w/ my trad placements come the spring so I don't plan on spending a whole lot of cash for this.


PS. Pete, my mom got one of them thar fancy fifi hooks at Europe Bound a year ago, apparently it was the only one there.


passthepitonspete


Dec 31, 2001, 10:00 AM
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Read my links above, one to the description of the fifi, and the other to her picture.

Rig her properly, and she will be your best friend on aid, since you will use fifi on every move.


Partner pianomahnn


Dec 31, 2001, 11:39 AM
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If I may, I'd like to mention that I LOVE my fifi. Treats me real good, she does.


bigwalling


Jan 3, 2002, 6:36 PM
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Dude my first pair of aiders were home made and they killed my feet. They also don't stay open as well. I think the aiders you buy are much better. Yet it will cost you at least hundred bucks for two pairs. Which is what you will want. And when you're first starting it will most likly take you along time to lead that first aid lead. So it will spare your feet a little with sewn aiders. Heres a tip don't aid climb in thin tennis shoes get a medium wieght hiking boot. The above are just a few things I found out the hard way. I still haven't even done a long route yet and I'm sure I'll find I have even more problems in the system I use right now. But good luck.


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