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sirtis
May 4, 2003, 12:03 AM
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:arrow: Hey im new and confused about the deferences of deferent belay devices, what are the safest? and over all best?
Thank you for your help.
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calpolyclimber
May 4, 2003, 12:28 AM
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There are several different types of belay devices.
-Tube type- (ATC, Pyramid, etc)
These are your most basic and versatile belay devices. They are VERY safe, but this DOES NOT mean that they are foolproof.
-Figure 8-
These are safe for belaying, but they cause some rope twist and kink.
-Gri Gri type-
These are mechanical belay devices, usually with an Autoblock feature. They are very effective and safe, but they too are NOT FOOLPROOF.
Its really a matter of preference, they are all safe and effective, but for a first belay device, go with the Black Diamond ATC. It is simple, and works great for top-rope, sport, trad, alpine, ice, multipitch, whatever you choose to pursue. It also gives you a nice smooth rappel. Its also pretty cheap, at about $17 (or get a cosmetic blem for $10.95 here: http://www.gx.starvedrockoutfitters.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=3000B )
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bigdrop
May 4, 2003, 12:47 AM
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I would like to add:
-Plate Type- (ex: cassin belay/rescue plate)
Mostly used to belay a second on multi pitch climbs. Can be rigged (requires two biners, one for that anchor and one for the rope bight) to auto lock and makes it very easy to belay two seconds at the same time.
-Munter Hitch knot on a biner-
An essential to know incase you drop (yikes) your normal belay device
peace
~jca
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climbalon
May 6, 2003, 4:44 AM
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All the belay devices are "safe" if you know how to use them. I like an ATC but it really is up to personal preference. GriGri's are great also but some people only use them and never learn how to belay without the auto locking cam. In theory the gri gri used with proper belay technique is the safest but go with whatever you feel comfortable with.
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apollodorus
May 6, 2003, 4:58 AM
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You should also learn how to hip belay, without gadgets that can be dropped. You use the rope around your hips to provide friction. In the old days, you could turn your simple tie-in or swami so it was at your back, and the lead rope went under it (for belaying a leader) or below it (for belaying a second).
And for the truly masochistic, you should learn how to rap Duffersitz-style (sp?), which involves straddling the rope, bringing it up around your leg, diagonally up across your chest, over the opposite shoulder and diagonally down around your back to the braking hand above where it crosses your thigh. Not recommended for steep rappels. Nice to know, if you need to rap 4th class, though.
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cracklover
May 6, 2003, 2:06 PM
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For a beginner, I'd recommend the ATC. Small, cheap, safe, simple, trains good belaying technique, and is very versatile. As you get more experience, you may decide to get a second belay device that fits whatever niche you find yourself in. For example, after five years of climbing with an ATC (of course I sometimes just use a munter hitch), I find I'm doing a fair amount of trad climbing with double ropes, so it's natural that I'm now buying a gigi, reverso, or equivalent (specifically, the TRE Sirius). Alternatively, if you find you're doing lots of sport, you'll probably pick up a gri-gri.
GO
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centmass
May 6, 2003, 2:19 PM
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In reply to: -Figure 8- These are safe for belaying, but they cause some rope twist and kink. |
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calpolyclimber
May 6, 2003, 2:27 PM
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Centmass-
There are actually 3 ways to use an 8 to belay. I don't do any of them, but they are good to know. These are listed in Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills.
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apk
May 6, 2003, 3:05 PM
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Registered: May 5, 2003
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I checked out the cosmetic blem on the gear express website. I was wondering what exactly this is. Is it better to just buy the real one or the blem.
Thanks
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cracklover
May 6, 2003, 3:30 PM
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buy the cosmetic blem one. You probably won't even be able to find the blemish.
GO
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calpolyclimber
May 6, 2003, 4:22 PM
Post #11 of 18
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Yeah. Ditto on what he said. I have bought NUMEROUS Black Diamond BLEM's from gearexpress (over 25 carabiners, an ATC, a fig. 8, etc)and have only been able to find one blem on one carabiner (granted I didn't search for them). It was a tiny little discororation of the anodizing (the kind of thing you deffinately can't find once its been used for, say one day). GET THE BLEM, save some money. Cosmetic blems are just that, cosmetic. Its usually a slight smear in the anodizing (coloring), but like I said, you probably wont even be able to find it. www.gearexpress.com often has a free shipping offer with no minimun sale, so keep your eye on them.
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apk
May 7, 2003, 2:43 AM
Post #12 of 18
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Registered: May 5, 2003
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Ok, Thanks for the advise. Do they ship to Canada? I checked the website but i couldn't find any info on that.
Thanks again.
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sirtis
May 19, 2003, 2:15 PM
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:arrow: thanx
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vtposer
May 22, 2003, 1:54 PM
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Registered: May 20, 2003
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The Gri Gri is probably the safest bet, but more expensive. check out the Reverso, just picked one up the other day and I love it. You should also learn how to use the Munter hitch in case you drop your belay device.
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rockhugger
May 28, 2003, 3:32 AM
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http://storrick.cnchost.com/VerticalDevicesPage/VerticalHome.shtml
Go to this website and take a look at the selection.
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alpnclmbr1
May 28, 2003, 4:24 AM
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Registered: Dec 10, 2002
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In reply to: Using the smaller hole of the figure 8 as a plate/tube? I have never seen a load rating on an eight so i wouldn't use it in 'rappel' mode to belay, but I really have no idea. Anyone know?
Do not use a figure 8 in rappel mode to belay, they don't hold for s??t!!!!
using the small hole will work. I haven't carried a figure 8 in fifteen plus years, although I still have one somewhere.
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ptone
May 28, 2003, 4:40 AM
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Info from 'Freedom of the Hills"
(I've left out a couple, here's a condensed list just on belay strength. Go get this book, it is absolutely packed with solid foundation info)
Going from 1=strongest belay, 5=weakest belay
1 Grigri (OK feed and lower, N/A for rap)
2 Munter Hitch (OK feed and lower, inefficient rap, twists rope)
3 ATC (Excellent feed, OK lower and rap)
3 Reverso (OK feed, inefficient lower and rap, but can autolock on second)
5 Hip Belay (Excellent feed, inefficient lower, N/A for rap)
2 Fig 8 *plate-style belay (OK feed and lower, don't let it slide down the rope)
5 Fig 8 *sport-style (Excellent feed and lower)
Edit to say-
Diff gear for diif apps, but in general
I use the ATC more than anything.
Nice and smooth to lead with, holds well, rap easily on two lines without twist, nice and compact...
peace,
-p
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norushnomore
May 28, 2003, 8:18 AM
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Here one more, TRE, quite new but I like it:
http://www.bentgate.net/treclimbelde.html
Feed not as perfect as ATC's and it takes a couple of tries to get raps smooth.
But if your belayer is light and has problems focusing for extended periods of time then autolock comes handy
It is also makes your raps super safe: as soon as you drop your hands it locks off.
Use it with the skinny rope (10mm or less)
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