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Aid Climbing=Cheat climbing
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passthepitonspete


Jan 1, 2002, 4:51 AM
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Aid Climbing=Cheat climbing
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When I first read this, I thought, "what the...?"

Then of course the next thing I did was see who wrote it, and it says "unnamed fourteen-year-old male." So then I'm like, roll eyes.......

So then, I examined the logic. And the little pecker may actually have a point....

There's "cheating", and then there's "cheating", eh?

I guess you haven't fiddled much with nuts and cams, eh? Man, I used to dream of climbing with nuts and cams! Hell, if I could climb with nuts and cams all the time, I could aid 150' in less than an hour!

And evidently you've never drilled bolts, eh? That's a lot more work than hooking and heading, that's for sure.

If you climb A5, or at least pitches that were once graded A5 and might still be A5 under the old scale, it's gonna take you a helluva lot longer than 5 hours! (Unless you're Ammon - then you can just fly up in one day and damn the torpedoes!)

There were two pitches on Jolly Roger that took me in the order of twelve hours! I think the Golden Doubloon was 11 hours and I'm pretty sure the A5 corner was 13 hours!

Dude, climbing is not about doing things the safe and easy way. If you want to do that, go take up a different avocation. Go be like everyone else. If this is the type of person you want to be, then go for it. The world is full of People Like You.

Climbing is an esoteric pursuit that you do for the sake of it being difficult! It makes no sense! It cannot be explained logically! If you think you can explain it, I will give you my mother's phone number, because she would love to hear from you.

And if you do not understand the logic in the paragraph above, then you should not be climbing hard aid! Go climb some plastic or some sport climbs.

I am not saying this to YOU, of no name, I speak in generalities.

Either you "get it", or you don't. I suspect you may be pulling my leg in this post, but I am afraid you are not. The aid climbing forum is mostly for people who "get it".

Check out this climb. You'll need about an hour to read the trip report, and to click on the links. Click on all the links, and understand the kind of people who would want to pursue hard aid.

If you want to be a real climber in the real arena of the mountains and the big walls, then you will have to put your neck on the line. This type of climbing is not about being safe, and it sure as hell isn't about cheating. In fact, it's about keeping things purposely difficult in order not to cheat. Aid climbers delight in illogic.

If you want to develop the kind of skill that allows you to climb in these types of places, where only a few of the craziest fools dare to go, then read on. This is the sort of thing I am trying to teach in the aid forum.

Otherwise, head for the gym little buddy! And you pull down hard on that plastic!

A place for only the Craziest Fools.






[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2002-01-01 04:53 ]


ratstar


Jan 1, 2002, 8:14 AM
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For once petes yammering is making sense.


clipngo


Jan 1, 2002, 9:00 AM
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Hey pete, I did the same thing on a couple of other posts, check to see who the originator was. When I saw a was a 14 year old kid, I decided to educate the young lad (similar to the way you did). You should read some of his other posts, painting holds so it is easier to see the route, bolting trad lines so people who are too scared to trad climb can get on them? Is this what we are teaching the FNGs? God, I hope not!


fo_d


Jan 1, 2002, 10:17 AM
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When I read the painting holds post I didnt have to look at a profile to figure out what we are dealing with here, I've been a co-owner of a chat server for a few years and you see this alot. I also have a 14 year old, the name of the game is getting attention. this 14 yr old figured out pretty fast how to push our buttons here at rc.com and seems to be enjoing it. if we all try to ignore future posts by patagin he/she will go away.


jono13


Jan 1, 2002, 12:22 PM
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AID CLIMBING SUCKS! Yep im 14, cant drive, and cant get to climbing, SO IM WITH YOU PATAGIN! Its to damn cold to climb right now in the bow valley right now to, SO PISS PEOPLE OFF! IM WITH YOU DUDE!!!!!!!!


jono13


Jan 1, 2002, 12:37 PM
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whoa kids, sorry bout that last post. ya, aid climbing aint cool, but i just read some of patagin's other posts, and man, WHAT THE HELLS WRONG WITH YOU? ya, im not a huge Aid climbing fan, and ya, i cant drive and it is kinda fun to piss someone off in fun, but dude, stop writing these dumb ass posts, i take back my whole last post on this forum, sorry guys. ciao
jono


tangboy


Jan 1, 2002, 2:04 PM
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im sorry people... but this guys latest posts... all five of them are totally wacked and he is just trying to get us flustered or something. he probably is a computer geek who is too fat to climb and is trying to get us going! thats what i think.
tang


crackwhore


Jan 1, 2002, 3:15 PM
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the problem with pissing on (or pissing off) people twice your age, is that when your 14 you dont have anything to back it up.
respect and understanding have taken a back seat to an uneducated ego.
face to face you would get your skinny butt whipped, both on the rock and in the cage.

take John Bachar for example.
pissed off a lot-o-people.
but...
...he backed it up

and PTPPete...

intelligent, well read and experienced.

personally im sure i would piss off some with my purist, pro-environment stand but i have never placed a single bolt, pounded a pin, or otherwised compromised my position. i, almost exclusively, solo and toprope.

in short, back it up or back it off.

proud to be a member of team Toprope.

[ This Message was edited by: crackwhore on 2002-01-01 15:24 ]


squeeks


Jan 1, 2002, 3:51 PM
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freakin idiot.

get a life, freak!


jmlangford


Jan 1, 2002, 4:30 PM
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He was serious and when he saw the reaction he got he thought he would act like it was all a big joke. You know, kind of what my 6 year old does. I hope this website doesn't turn into some degenerate forum for teen-age punks! I actually enjoy this site, for now!


colin


Jan 1, 2002, 4:52 PM
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Age thing? I'm only a year older than you and nobody has ever mentioned my age when trying to prove me wrong.

The reason they are is that you are fitting into the mold of a stereotypical adolescent male.


bigwalling


Jan 1, 2002, 6:43 PM
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Yeh I've heard this one before Aid=cheating. It's a bunch of bull. And when he says why not bolt the A5. That's pathetic that leaves a bigger impact than a few pins. And since when is an A5 lead use only cams and nuts. Most young climbers these days are nothing but gym rats. They need to get out and climb some real rock. Dude I can't drive but I still find ways to get out and hit the real rock. I don't imagine there's alot of teenage aid climbers. But thats only because most are afraid of a runout or a bad fall. Well I'm not and if it ever stops raining around where I live I'm going to get out and climb some hard aid first ascent(there's tons of untoched rock were I live). So lets hope some of these baby sport climbers stop saying stupid things.


Partner rrrADAM


Jan 3, 2002, 1:51 AM
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I think his friends are getting laid, but girls just laugh and point at him... So he's frustrated.

Bummer, sucks to be him.


rrrADAM


stigonrock


Jan 3, 2002, 5:48 AM
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Patagin

The theory is that the older you get the wiser you get...(so they say). Mind not sure if that theory works, Im still a kid at heart, but I do have respect for the different styles of climbing even if I don't like them all.

Aid climbing is cheating?....please, please, open your eyes. I am not into aid climbing but do respect that other people prefer different ways of climbing.

Im cannot say I am knowledgeable on Aid climbing, but to me it is not just about ascending big walls, but it is a style of climbing incorporated in Alpine style climbing and also Mountaineering. Im quite sure that there are quite a few summits or routes to summits would still be unclimbed if it was not for aid climbing.

Bolt an aid route? Yeah....why nots let bolt all the aid routes and free climb them all (*stig is being sarcastic with a smile*)
If it was that easy then it would have been done by now. I have assisted in bolting single pitch routes, and trust me when I say it is a lot of hard work, and quite time enduring

Attitudes, attitudes.....
Respect the rock and respect the different ,methods and types of climbing. Some of these methods go back years and years, before you were born and I was born.

Seek to improve methods but remember rockclimbing cannot be confined to one style only.

Live, learn and respect and enjoy for yourself. Don't ruin other peoples enjoyment or put them down because they choose a different style. (You wouldn't believe the crap I get from quite a few UK climbers, just because Im into sports climbing first)

Be nice, be respectful and people will treat you the same.

Yours Very Very Sincerely
Angela


stroker


Jan 3, 2002, 8:14 AM
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Once again, there's an argument over aid climbing vs. other forms of climbing. This is a never ending problem, with close minded people, scared of other forms of entertainment. After I nail myself up a wall, I usually "boulder" the week after I got off the route. Then sometimes I sport climb, send cracks, and lift beers off the night stand. Who the hell cares, what is right. If you achieve happiness, does it matter what form of climbing it is.


metoliusmunchkin


Jan 3, 2002, 9:10 AM
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Apparently, due to your posts degrading the likes of other subjects, I must now indulge you into a series of well thought-out insults to keep you busy, until you might just actually get it.

As it was quite obvious from the beginning, you Patagin, new not of any other type of climbing, no trad experience whatsoever, no aid or big wall experienced, although, you continue to post irrelevently into this aid climbing forum.

Yes, I must concur that your views upon the now most recent and advanced climbing world are quite extrinsic, and many other climbers (those who get it)will most definitely not agree with the likes of your comments/opinions.

Those who are in the frantic pursuit, of the ever advancing difficulties in the world of rock climbing, strive for that extra difficulty, only to improve/better themselves to become that ultimate climber. Evidently, you are not one of these people. To actually paint the hold upon a rock face, would in fact completely alter the state and grade of the route, changing the outlook upon it completely. In doing such an act of distaste, you would be completely defeating the sole purpose of the climb (difficulty). This must definietely be the cause of one who does not truly and affectionately enjoy the sport of climbing.

In bolting trad lines (another miss) you would also be defeating the sole purpose of an excellent trad route. To climb a route, without damaging the rock face in any way, the placing of the gear, the overall difficulty of the placement of the gear while climbing, each and every one of these things you would be extracting from the very essence of the climb. In doing so, yes, sport climbers would be able to climb such routes, although, they were not intended to do so in the first place, otherwise, the routes would have already been bolted.

I am terribly sorry, and afraid that I now must have a negative point of view on your behalf. It seems to me that you do not enjoy the company of other, more experienced climbers (again those who get it), nor the solitary elements of the tranquil process of the actual climbing of the rock. Each of your statements, and opinions, that you unjustly wish to become a fateful reality, is quite disturbing to me, for in each one, the entire purpose of the sport of climbing is defeated. Quite extrinsic indeed!

I most definitely suggest that you have a nice long talk with someone who get's it to rid your head of such indefinite, insensible ideas. You have much to learn in the ever vastly growing society of climbers, and that, must now be you own personal frantic pursuit.

Get it?


ktclimb


Jan 3, 2002, 9:48 AM
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as a chick who aid climbs,let me just say this to all the nay sayers: don't knock it till you've tried it! IT is a totally different kind of climbing, and it is totally hard and awesome. I cannot wait to get back to yosemite and get on more stuff out there! and to all the 14 year olds out there, hey, there is nothing wrong with being 14, just don't talk a walk that you don't actually WALK. that's all.....
and personally I feel ALL kinds of climibng are valid.
peace, all!


climber1


Jan 15, 2002, 12:58 PM
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tell that to Robbins


slider


Jan 24, 2002, 11:58 PM
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If you think aid climbing is cheating, than what do you think of ice climbing? In ice climbing (which I love) the rules are a lot more simple stick the pick, and set a screw. You pretty much make your "HOLDS" as you go. When aiding you have to (sometimes) look for the smallest little flake, put a hook on it, and hope it hold because you haven't been capable of setting a decent piece of pro for twenty feet. You must never have felt your hammer hit your ankle after a thirty foot screamer!


kman


Jan 25, 2002, 1:26 AM
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I think rrradam pretty much covered it "I think his friends are getting laid, but girls just laugh and point at him... So he's frustrated"

It's sad that he has nothing better to do than to piss people off. It really sucks that people are so closed minded about different styles of climbing. Especially if the person has not tried it for them selve. "Don't knock it till you tried it"



pwsk


Jan 25, 2002, 2:33 AM
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"But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgement forbid as it may."
by John Muir
from The Mountains of California

Yes Pete, it cannnot be explained logically...


uhighfreak


Feb 8, 2002, 11:48 AM
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I don't personally aid climb but isn't aid climbing the way the sport started? I may be totally wrong in my perception of aid climbing but I thought and still think that the first people that conquer cliffs are the aid climbers. Am I wrong? I think aid climbing is very dangerous but all climbing is dangerous. If you are in this sport to get away from danger, you went up the wrong tree. And to the 14 year old that posted this idea, go out and climb and get a respect for all climbers and what they do before you come on here and rip on any type of climbing.


elcapbuzz


Feb 8, 2002, 12:20 PM
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I don't think I need to add my two cents in about patagin.

I do want to know something from irapoffcamhooks.

Do you really think aid climbing is safe? A5?

You say nobody has been killed aid climbing.

Not true. Lot's of poeple have died from it.

Everyone who doesn't aid climb:

Poeple may think it's stupid, people also might think Big Wave Surfing is stupid. People have died doing that as well.

I have a simple solution for you all:

DON'T DO IT!!!!!

It's that simple, enough said. Ammon

(All forms of Climbing are DANGEROUS!!!)


phil_nev


Aug 16, 2002, 8:34 PM
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pete, its good to see u didnt go off at the little "pecker". I like the way you handled that comment as i know you are an avid aid climber, my respect for you has increased immensely.
Phil.


apollodorus


Aug 16, 2002, 9:06 PM
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Aid climbing isn't cheating. Putting draws on rappel on a sport route is cheating. Aid climbing requires starting at the bottom, and going up, not rapping down to pre-draw and pre-chalk the route.

It's pretty easy for the new climbers to disrespect hard climbing, as if cams and bubble-gum rubber always existed.

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