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fixxervi6


May 7, 2003, 1:44 PM
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Climbing seneca
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I've only ever trad on granite, so I have a full set of cams, not fat cams, just your regular metolius 4 cams and some TCU's, and about 3 small tri cams, pink and up, and of course, all the other regular goodies stoppers and hexes, now. How will this stuff stand up to sand stone in seneca? my 3 tri cams won't cut it, so would my 4 cams save my ass if I try to fly?

My other question is, my gf does not lead, but she always cleans my nuts, er pro, so on like the old lady route, are the belay stations large enough to swap off and continue up?


jerrygarcia


May 7, 2003, 1:52 PM
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Sounds like you have a suficient rack. Your tri cams will work fine on "seneca rock". The belay stations on old ladys are all pretty large(non-hanging) if im not mistaken. The only time I climbed it was back in 1993.


c_kryll


May 7, 2003, 2:05 PM
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"How will this stuff stand up to sand stone in seneca? "

Seneca is not sandstone. It is a Tuscarora quartzite and a pretty 'hard' rock type. It sounds like your rack will do fine, but a good selection of nuts, stoppers, and brassies are nice to have.

Chris


punk


May 7, 2003, 2:39 PM
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In reply to:
My other question is, my gf does not lead, but she always cleans my nuts,
nice, Hygiene is very important :wink: 8)
Btw, your rack is just fine :oops: :oops:


bartlax


May 7, 2003, 3:16 PM
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Re: Climbing seneca [In reply to]
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Your rack is definitely fine. It is also definitely sandstone-esk (not redrocks like) in places that haven't been climbed to hard. I believe quartzite is the base layer of the rock with the layer of sandstone on top from millions of years of sediment pressed into it. Here is an excerpt from Seneca Rocks climbing school:

The Seneca Rocks Climbing School is located in the heart of some of the most beautiful country in the eastern U.S., the Allegheny mountains of West Virginia. Seneca Rocks is a sheer :lol: sandstone :lol: peak towering 900 feet above the valley floor, providing a "little big mountain" atmosphere unique in the East and an ideal instructional setting. Guided ascents of Seneca's long, varied routes include an absolutely spectacular summit visit and have provided lifelong memories for many hundreds of satisfied clients.

If they call it Sandstone I would have to go with them on it.


pico23


May 7, 2003, 4:09 PM
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Only climbed at Seneca for a week but it wasn't sandstone. I believe it is quatzite and very similar to the Gunks and probably better grip on pro then granite. Your rack sounds fine, btw. The moderate routes tend to be spacious at the belays with good gear and holds along. Beware the routes are sustained steep for the grades and not many of the 5.4's actually feel like a 5.4 even if you are used to Gunks grading. Awesome place to climb though.


fixxervi6


May 8, 2003, 1:12 PM
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I've trad 5.6, sport 5.6, thats 2 to 3 grades lower than my max, so I figure my first time in an area, 5.4 should be fine.


cadaverchris


May 8, 2003, 1:22 PM
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seneca can get crowded on the easy and moderate routes on weekends, so if you're looking at Old Lady's, Ecstacy, Skyline Travers, or Conns East- get a early start or be prepared to wait (bring a book).

as previously mention, the belay stances are generally comfy =)

have fun!

careful the weather this weekend (may 10th/11th 2003)


tecais


May 8, 2003, 1:33 PM
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Don't forget double 60m ropes if you want to get off South Peak in one single rap. Otherwise the descent can become problematic, especially on crowded weekends.


zetedog


May 8, 2003, 1:59 PM
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Good advice given so far, especially the 60M rope. If you don't have doubles, there's always someone willing to tie together at the traffic jam rap.

Also- Didn't mention helmuts. Not a recommendation at seneca. It's a must. There have only been a few times that I have been down there when "Rock" wasn't called repeatedly.

The TCU's will work great.

Last-While Tony Barnes has always been nice to me, I don't care for his guide, which frequently has statements to the like "starts ten feet to the left of" some other climb that starts at the base of "some obscure feature".
I wouldn't call route finding tricky by any stretch, but you might want to check your location with others nearby to verify where you are. I have pointed more than a few first timers around a corner or two because what they were looking at matched the book description perfectly.

Also- About the change overs, I have only climbed at seneca once where I swapped leads, and none of the climbs you listed had bad belay spots.

Last- Ecstacy is a pretty stout 5.7, as recommended above, and route finding is tricky on that one.

I'd stick with:
Old Ladies 5.1 (the second pitch has a decent move to start the pitch, protect well for your second)
Conn's West (with the direct finish) 5.4?
Skyline traverse 5.3, good move off of the belay start the second pitch
First Pitch of Totem is a 5.3 or a 5.4, lots of pro either way, bolts for anchors, 60M rope Needed on this one
LeGormet, 5.4 (based on your description, I would use this as your test piece)

If you are comfy with this one, then try
Candy Corner 5.5 Sandbag (Helmuts are a must on this one), 60M to rap back to ground on this one, or can continue on Skyline
Ecstacy Jr. 5.4?
Conn's East 5.5 or 6?
Thais 5.5 (some loose stuff here and there)
Last, one of the best climbs at seneca gunsight to southpeak 5.3, Access to the gunsight is made by a one move wonder (banana 5.6) Gunsight itself is not technically hard, but mentally brutal.

Todd


c_kryll


May 8, 2003, 2:19 PM
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Ok, maybe I'm anal, but I need to clarify that Seneca is NOT sandstone. According to the guide book by Tony Barnes and confirmed by the Nelson Rock web site http://www.nelsonrocks.org/geo.html, seneca is a Tuscarora Quartzite. It is the same type of rock found at the Gunks with slightly less crystalization.

Chris


fixxervi6


May 8, 2003, 2:19 PM
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awsome advice man! thanks!

I'll be hittin it last week of June during the week.


maynardgkrebs


May 8, 2003, 2:57 PM
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Tuscarora quartzite IS sandstone. See here for clarification:

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/geology/tuscarora.html


A helmet is absolutely essential for climbing at Seneca.


pico23


May 8, 2003, 3:12 PM
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In reply to:
Tuscarora quartzite IS sandstone. See here for clarification:

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/geology/tuscarora.html


A helmet is absolutely essential for climbing at Seneca.

Interesting to know. You might want to let Gunks climbers know they also climb sandstone. Seriously though, even if geologically it is sandstone for your pro purposes it is bomber. People generally love climbing at the Gunks because the protection is so good because of options and rock quality. Seneca is similar. Gear really bites in and holds.


pico23


May 8, 2003, 3:18 PM
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As long as we a recommending routes. Gunsight to South Peak direct is a great climb. TONS OF EXPOSURE. and it's actually a 5.4 (a real 5.4 not a 5.7 5.4) We climbed it with 3 so belays weren't a problem and should be less for 2 people. You can also do Gunsight to South Peak which is 5.3. Didn't do that variation so can't comment but exposure looked the same and looked like agood route.


tradmanclimbs


May 11, 2003, 5:01 PM
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I have done both gunsite varriations in various weather conditions (snow, wind, rain etc) and they both felt mighty lot like 5.7 to me 8)


straightedgeteen


May 11, 2003, 7:29 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Tuscarora quartzite IS sandstone. See here for clarification:

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/geology/tuscarora.html


A helmet is absolutely essential for climbing at Seneca.

Interesting to know. You might want to let Gunks climbers know they also climb sandstone. Seriously though, even if geologically it is sandstone for your pro purposes it is bomber. People generally love climbing at the Gunks because the protection is so good because of options and rock quality. Seneca is similar. Gear really bites in and holds.
Very Interesting to know


climbingbetty22


May 11, 2003, 8:46 PM
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Yes, Seneca is a type of sandstone, but I think the confusion comes in because when others think of 'sandstone' they think of crumbly desert sandstone. Seneca is not like that...you won't believe that they call it 'sandstone.' Your rack will be fine.

I'm not sure if it was previously mentioned, but Ecstasy Junior is a nice 5.4. Also, you can access the Gunsight via the east face from Broadway Ledge. The moves are a little easier...the top move on Banana may play with your head if you're not solid on lead.

Gunsight to South Peak only feels hard because you are so incredibly exposed, my friend who guides there calls it the "scariest 5.4 on Earth." But it's a good climb.

If you're going to be there over the weekend...get up early. Also if it is a busy day, keep your eyes peeled...people do some stupid stuff and also it increases the risk that rocks will become airborne...you're brain bucket is the most important part of your rack!


1269topper


May 12, 2003, 10:26 PM
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If you all are looking for a killer scary 5.4 like the gun site, which I must say is super awsome. Check out he windy notch, its a fun route to pull off of the old ladys route. Plese don't attempt unless your comforatable at almost soloing this grade. Its a easy 5.4 but its looks like blocks the size of micorwaves stacked on top of each other back from a edge. Well I wont scare you its a 5.4 that made me say mommy.


robmcc


May 13, 2003, 7:44 AM
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I'm just curious. About what percentage of people at seneca wear helmets? I haven't been there in a decade, but back then there were few. Rockfall does happen, but I never had a close encounter other than with what I think was a terminal velocity grapefruit. I almost certainly will be wearing one next time, hopefully later this summer, but it'd be all the better if I wasn't part of a tiny minority.


vertical_reality


May 13, 2003, 8:28 AM
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I climbed Escasty Junior and Old Ladies as my first multi-pitch last October. All of the belay stations on these routes are huge, but only one is really exposed. The station at the start of the second pitch of Old Ladies is a big boulder that just shoots out from the face with lots of exposure. The rest are great, with trees and rock between you and the edge.

Hope this helps,
Mike


zetedog


May 13, 2003, 9:21 AM
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In reply to:
robmcc Posted: 13 May 2003 14:44 Post subject: Helmets?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm just curious. About what percentage of people at seneca wear helmets? I haven't been there in a decade, but back then there were few. Rockfall does happen, but I never had a close encounter other than with what I think was a terminal velocity grapefruit. I almost certainly will be wearing one next time, hopefully later this summer, but it'd be all the better if I wasn't part of a tiny minority.

I 've probably averaged better than one trip a month during over the last 3 years. I would estimate the number of people wearing helmets on the plus side of 90%. It seems to me the people w/o helmets are now the exception.

Personally, I wouldn't be in the vicinity of drop zone/ Candy corner (or anything else on the south end east of the cave), traffic jam rappel (more for dropped items), Thais, or beneath the conn's west gulley w/o one. There was probably less traffic, and consequently, less stuf pulled off, ten years ago. I pretty much put the helmet on when crossing the stream and leaving on until I cross back. I was nearly beaned walking up the stairmaster when someone kicked a rock loose at the top of the talus. YMMV

Todd


howitzer


May 13, 2003, 9:29 AM
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To clear it up a little bit, the quartzite reference gets confusing (I'm a geologist)....
There are two kinds of quartzite - the most common of which is a metamorphic rock. There is a sedimentary variation of quartzite that is Sandstone - which is what Seneca is. A hard but non metamorphosed version of sandstone that looks and feels very compact and dense. Indeed that is where the confusion comes in :)


bartlax


May 13, 2003, 10:39 AM
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I was at the base of CandyCorner two weekends ago which is almost directly under a very loose Skyline Traverse to the Luncheon Ledge. Without any warning from the climbers above and no "rock" call a rock about the size of a softball landed about 10 feet from where we were standing as well as some other smaller stuff. Stuff flies all the time at Seneca, and Nelson even more so...

WEAR YOUR HELMET!!!!!

:shock:


drkodos


May 13, 2003, 11:19 AM
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[quote="pico23] You might want to let Gunks climbers know they also climb sandstone.
Gunks is NOT Sandstone.

Seneca and Gunks are similar, not the same.

Seneca is Tuscarora Sandstone.
Gunks is Metamophisized Quartzite Conglomerate.


They were both laid down as sedimentary rocks around the same era. The both have horizontally banded weaknessess.

They are not the same, but they are related (geological cousins)

Metamorphic rocks can start their lives as either Igneous, Sedimentary, or as another type of Metamophic rock.

The Gunks were layed down as sediments as part of a large River Delta. Lots of turbulent activity led to the cross bedding that includes lots of aggregate (pebbles). Over time this layered bedding become compacted and turned into a Conglomerate. Long years, heat, and pressure combined to metamoph (change) the rock from a conglomerate to a Quartzite conglomerate.

Sweeter than Yahoo is what it is.
Harder than Granite on Moh's hardness scale.

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