|
epic_ed
May 12, 2003, 5:06 PM
Post #1 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
From the NPS Morning report: http://data2.itc.nps.gov/morningreport/ Black Tower pitch...ouch. Anyone know more about this incident? Wondering how much of the fixed gear he ripped on the pitch. Also curious what piece blew that started the fall. I'm guessing he might have pulled a manky head or placed an iffy clean piece. I'm hoping to climb this thing in June -- any fixed gear that pulled will probably have been replaced by then -- but anyone know what might need to be replaced in the first 30 ft? I've heard about the notorious fixed rurps. Ed
|
|
|
|
|
gawd
May 12, 2003, 5:27 PM
Post #2 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 193
|
Sounds like you will have to sack it up and be ready to acutal climb. Are you getting in over your head if the fixed gear is not there? People should not expect fixed gear to be there or even be bomber. Be prepared to climb and not just clip gear. Now please act all offended.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
May 12, 2003, 5:33 PM
Post #3 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
I'm always in over my head. Have you climbed the route? Any idea what gear might have ripped? I mean, do you actually have some worthwhile input? I think the question makes it clear that I'm trying to prepare to replace whatever fixed gear necessary. Seriously -- have you climbed it?
|
|
|
|
|
gawd
May 12, 2003, 5:38 PM
Post #4 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 193
|
Yes. 1994.
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
May 12, 2003, 5:47 PM
Post #5 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
Excellent. Care to offer your insight about what those first 30 feet are like and what I might need to be prepared to replace? You can even be a jerk about it if it makes you feel better. I'm certainly not expecting a "clip up". I'm looking forward to some of the free sections (hopefully I can make up some time by freeing as much as possible), and it would be a rush to place a few heads (C'Head says my tools are in the mail). I'd just like to know what you thought about that section right above black tower. You think the fixed rurps are still there?
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
May 12, 2003, 5:53 PM
Post #6 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
Take some beaks and some crack-n-ups, a pecker or two, and some scream aids. Test the placements before committing, the fall can be ugly. I used two crack-n-up placements in addition to the fixed rurps, as usual ymmv, all routes subject to change, no refund, and read the disclaimer. I've also seen (but not on this route) rurps stacked with one of those wedges you drive into the top of a wooden hammer handle. Pretty ingenious ifn you ask me. Have a great climb! Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
gawd
May 12, 2003, 5:54 PM
Post #7 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 193
|
How is not spoon feeding you beta being a jerk? I think you are the one being a jerk! Well not really, but I think if you have to ask about an A2 route and then maybe you need to readjust your game plan and maybe think about starting on something more your speed, After 6 seems right up your alley. I don't give beta, never have never will. Climbing is about adventure and challenge, tackling the unknown with your ability and the tools you have choosen. Being a well rounded climber is the key to success. I am sure pete will offer up his wordy and obnoxious bit here soon enough and you can lap up the spoon fed shite.
|
|
|
|
|
brutusofwyde
May 12, 2003, 5:59 PM
Post #8 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2002
Posts: 1473
|
In reply to: How is not spoon feeding you beta being a jerk? The not spoon feeding is not the jerk part, imho. If it were, that would make everyone who did not respond a jerk, which is clearly not the case. Have a great day. Brutus
|
|
|
|
|
epic_ed
May 12, 2003, 6:14 PM
Post #9 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4724
|
Thanks for once again demonstrating you have nothing worthwhile to offer. Most of us come to this forum to learn, share our experiences, talk about our plans -- kind of like a self-help group for those of us with the "aid climbing" affliction. You? Generally you just come around to piss on the parade. Whatever makes your day, dude. And I'll reiterate -- I'm certain Zodiac is over my head. That's why it's going to be a challenge and that's why I'm going to give it a shot. I agree entirely that climbing is about "adventure and challenge." I'm asking for some input on what tools to bring -- I'm not asking you to climb up there and place the stuff for me. It's probably a moot point, anyway. The stuff will likely be re-fixed by this weekend. Ed
|
|
|
|
|
copperhead
May 12, 2003, 6:16 PM
Post #10 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 668
|
There is a reason why some of us wait until the weather is nice to climb walls. Getting caught in a waterfall (though not the incident that necessitated the rescue) can be miserable and dangerous, if not deadly, as we have seen this winter. Respect the weather. The climbing above the Black Tower is not hard. The crack is kind of thin but there are many huge pin scars. The smallest pin I placed in that section was a #2 or #3 Arrow and that was 11 years ago. I don’t remember any RURPs on the pitch. There were some fixed RURPs in the middle of pitch 8, between the rivets (now bolts… eh, hem!!!). You should be able to get good cams (hybrids…) and nuts on the pitch. If you get gripped, slam in a pin. You don’t want to fall on this section because the Black Tower is not forgiving, as Mr. Ring has proven. Up2, forget what these guys are saying. You will send Zodiac and you will have a blast. Nothing on the route is too difficult for you. The goodies are in the mail. Good luck and have fun!!!
|
|
|
|
|
czarcastic
May 12, 2003, 6:52 PM
Post #11 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2003
Posts: 64
|
Ya if your asking for beta on a climb, you must be in over your head...where is the logic in that statement? I think its an adventure either way, I mean you still have to do actually do the climbing, even if you know you need to bring some different or specialized equipment. I think gawd may have followed some bad beta at some point, hence the chip on his shoulder for giving beta to others.
|
|
|
|
|
lambone
May 12, 2003, 6:58 PM
Post #12 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1399
|
Yeah man you can do it, just take your time in that section and test your shit well. I led that pitch when we did it a few years ago, and remember being gripped...I vividly remember one fixed rurp with a thin mank chord tie off, the rest is a blurr, all I remember is small pieces, but it's all there...have fun! Sorry to hear about the bad fall, thats a bummer. What a bad ass for getting themselves down though! He was probly pretty stoaked about that Morphine!
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
May 12, 2003, 7:01 PM
Post #13 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
The whole point of asking for advice and beta from unknown sources on the internet is sheer folly. Those that do ask reveal themselves as unknowing and ignorant to the risks inherent in this pursuit. It speaks volumes about a person's inabilty for self-determination to follow advice from this site (Whether its from that megalomaniac Dr. Piton or just a regular garden variety lunatic such as myself). There are most definitle some credible sources here, but if one doesn't have the experience to determine what is credible to begin with, why bother asking? Go read a book, learn something first. Then come here and act like a know-it-all. Isn't that what Rock Climbing Web sites are all about? :wink:
|
|
|
|
|
czarcastic
May 12, 2003, 8:00 PM
Post #14 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 16, 2003
Posts: 64
|
"The whole point of asking for advice and beta from unknown sources on the internet is sheer folly" I agree to a certain extent, but if you have received information in the past that you were able to validate from other sources, why would you not look to that same source for information again. I doubt the original poster was just going to do what anyone on this forums says and charge off to the climb. If you have any common sense you take things with a grain of salt. Personally PTPP has given lots of useful information that I feel is valid from my own experience, so would I be dumb to ask again for his advice? Don't think so... The way I look at the internet is the same as a bunch of climbers sitting around a campsite talking sh%%. You listen to everyone and then determine if its useful or not. You would be not be very smart to listen to advice one night from a complete stranger, then just take it as the definite truth. My .02$
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
May 12, 2003, 8:11 PM
Post #15 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
But, sitting at the campsite, I can use my eyes to see if you are overweight and nasty looking or maybe even sport a fetid odor (very important when making a decision as to credibilty, at least according to real research. We actuallty put more faith in smelling than most people realize. Anyway, I digress...) I agree that drilling the same well for info that has proved reliable is fine.
|
|
|
|
|
iamthewallress
May 12, 2003, 8:16 PM
Post #16 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 2463
|
So does good walling advice come from thin fetid folk, fat stinky ones, skinny nice-smelling people, or skinny stinky people. I'm so confused now. I have the John Long book, but I don't know if he's stinky or fat these days. What to do? Melissa (Yesterday I smelled; today I don't. When would be the best time for me to give advice?)
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
May 12, 2003, 8:19 PM
Post #17 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
The best walling advice is from walling, no? And remember, don't verb nouns..... :wink: I think the best advice is given from those with a minimum of a five-day funk...... or honest eyes.... successfully hijacking threads for over a fiftieth of a century!
|
|
|
|
|
yosemite
May 12, 2003, 8:23 PM
Post #18 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 5, 2002
Posts: 331
|
In reply to: I can use my eyes to see if you are overweight and nasty looking or maybe even sport a fetid odor Although you give a very good description of me, how can you gauge my aroma with your eyes? Curious, as always. Gene
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
May 12, 2003, 8:25 PM
Post #19 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Snagged by a dangling participle...... My eyes have extraordianary olfactory powers....
|
|
|
|
|
base104
May 12, 2003, 8:39 PM
Post #20 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 27, 2003
Posts: 34
|
First, I would like to say that rapping 7 pitches with a broken pelvis is damned commendable. I'd like to buy that guy whatever he's drinkin'. That's proud stuff, people, and I only hope I can do it if my number comes up. Now, I'm holdin' in my grimy hands my torn topo with scribbles on it from a 1981 ascent of Zodiac. I led the odds, so I must have done that pitch. All it says is "fixed rurps and many U-Nail-Em KB's." My guess is that it was a lot of tied off ringers. The old Meyers? topo (or whoever did the topos that were in the old ring binders) had it rated A4, but I doubt that pitch still was, or I would remember it better. I think every rurp on the route was fixed when we did it (and there were quite a few of them), but there was still some heading and tons of nailing, since the smallest cam was a #1 Friend and we had precious few cams anyway. I think it was getting done every week or two, but I could be wrong. I was only in the valley for a month or two that year. It wasn't like you had to wait in line, anyway. But don't worry, it wasn't too bad even then. Maybe as easy as it is now; I don't know. I was kind of shocked to see four bolts beneath the Zorro Roof, though. I'd never seen convenience bolts. Two of the bolts were obviously for hanging ledges only. This was way back in the day of 1/4 inchers. Yeah, I've heard what it looks like now. I just don't understand. It was easy to see how at one time it was hard. There were few real pin scars when we did it. It was just the fixed rurps and heads that were taking over. I'd honestly say that it was around old school A3 when we did it, with no real crux. It was by no means totally fixed. We nailed our butts off. I think that guy Dingus or one of the other frequent posters did it in 82 or something, so he probably had a similar experience. Anyway, the history lesson is now over.
|
|
|
|
|
passthepitonspete
May 13, 2003, 12:03 AM
Post #21 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
|
In reply to: Ring, however, managed to continue his descent all the way to the ground, a process that necessitated passing a knot joining his ropes while hanging in a waterfall in the dark. I'm jumping with BASE - that boy is bad to the bone. Ed, you'll have fun. Getting in over your head [within] is precisely what big wall climbing is all about. You'll most likely send it no probs, but if you have a wall problem that needs solving, you could try calling your Wall Doctor on channel 2-10. I'll most likely be around you somewhere! Hmph. Megalomaniac indeed.
|
|
|
|
|
karlbaba
May 13, 2003, 2:05 AM
Post #22 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 10, 2002
Posts: 1159
|
I soloed Zodiac in 1982. There is a trip report on my site http://member.newsguy.com/~climbing/Zodiac%20Solo%201982.html After 20 years I went back and climbed it clean this time http://member.newsguy.com/~climbing/El_Cap_Zodiac_20_years.html After you get to the top of the black tower, you have to climb this rurp/knifeblade crack. It was probably less fixed last year than it was in 82. I used two cam aliens, hb offsets and cam hooks to get up that pitch last year. In 82, I placed one rurp and a KB or two. It was quite scary to do it clean. If you rip, you can hit the black tower which would suck. I still remember my worst piece. A cam hook in a little flake to the right of the main crack. The whole flake flexed when I stepped on the hook and I thought there was a good chance I might rip the whole flake. I was just lucky but I didn't want to nail. That retreat sounded scary, particularly when a less injured guy was killed rappelling at night through the same waterfall just recently Peace Karl
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
May 13, 2003, 2:53 AM
Post #23 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
[quote="passthepitonspete" Hmph. Megalomaniac indeed. :shock: It's a term of endearment.....
|
|
|
|
|
passthepitonspete
May 13, 2003, 3:44 AM
Post #24 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2001
Posts: 2183
|
I resemble that comment!
|
|
|
|
|
orangeoverhang
May 13, 2003, 4:26 AM
Post #25 of 42
(5802 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 29, 2002
Posts: 71
|
I did it in 1999 using several three cams units, cam hooks and some RP's. I took the big fall as well hitting the tower on the way down. Luckily i managed to just skim it and took a chunk of flesh out of my elbow. If you have a basic rack of largish cut-off pins it woudl make these moves much safer -thats if you are not tryign to get it clean!
|
|
|
|
|
|