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faranda
May 21, 2003, 10:12 PM
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Hi..
Most of my experience in rockclimbing was in indors... ! I always try to climb 5.10 and on... and my question is... if an indor route rated as 5.9/5.10/5.12 etc... in a Gym is easier, the same or harder (which I don't think so) than doing a route with the same rate in a rock... !
Could u tell ? Thanks for your comments... ! :wink:
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misha
May 21, 2003, 10:14 PM
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Significantly easier
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daceilo
May 21, 2003, 10:22 PM
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So much harder outdoors. I lead 5.10's in the gym no problem and this weekend was my first time leading (Sport that is) a 5.10 outside... definitely a different headspace as well. Oh, and that's not even touching on trad climbing...
Laurence
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leaverbiner
May 21, 2003, 10:23 PM
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If you primarily climb inside - you will likely find outdoor climbs to be much more difficult at the same grade. You have become accustomed to being show the path, following taped holds up the wall, and also likely have become comfortable with the controlled environment. This all makes the outdoor routes seem harder at first.
However, if you end up spending lots of time outside and then try t return to the gym, you may find the gym routes harder - when climbing outside regularly you find your own style and fiind ways to climb routes that fit your height, or strengths. When you go inside the route becomes more forced and can feel more difficult. You also can't always adjust to having to follow the damn tape.
Hope that helps.
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shortfatoldguy
May 21, 2003, 10:33 PM
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Generally easier in the gym, I've found so far. But so much depends. On everything but red wheel barrows. There are .10s in my gym that are ladders and .10s that are really strenuous. And outdoors there are .10s that are thin and technical and .10s that are steep and juggy. Depends on what you're used to, what your strengths are.
The headspace comment is right on, though. Hard to get gripped in the gym. Much easier to do outside.
The two gyms I climb at have different notions about grading, too.
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acheong
May 21, 2003, 10:48 PM
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I've found that both outdoor and indoor climbs are difficult in different ways.
On the one hand, the holds on say, an indoor 10a are generally larger and more positive than a comparably rated outdoor route, but they are also more sparsely placed.
In general at the same grade, indoor = positive holds + bigger more physical moves + more overhanging. Outdoor = less positve holds + harder routefinding + more options for movement + less overhanging.
So, depending on what your strengths as a climber are, one or the other could be more difficult.
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neomagi
May 21, 2003, 10:55 PM
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yah, what everyone has said so far. but....
i set at a gym, and i try to move the grade up on plastic a bit. i would rather that someone climbing say one of my 5.10a slab's be able to do a 10a slab in the wild. at least physically... i know of other setters in other gyms around the country who do the same. they do some limited factoring that helps to even out the head game that can happen outside.
i think one of the biggest factors by way of holds is the number of intermediate holds available outside. you can put your feet on any numb of real rock and it is all good. hard to put on 400 foot chips for a route in the gym.
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jman
May 21, 2003, 11:20 PM
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Hate to be so vauge in answering your question, but IMO it really depends on the gym route setters. I think when people who start their climbing career in a gym go outside they become a little intimidated by real rock because a clear path up the wall is not readily apparent. I think the main things to learn outside is how to read the rock and to be able to see the next move.
From different gyms I have visited and climbed at I think in general you'll find the outdoor routes are a little harder. The gym that I regularly climb at the route setter purposly sandbag the grades so the indoor routes at the same grade feel harder than the outside routes. I think they do that in order to even out the route finding and mind game aspect of climbing outdoors. Again it really depends on the route setters.
You should probably talk to some of the other folks at the gym and get their opinion because everyones opinion on this site is going to vary unless they have actually climbed at the gym that you climb at.
Hope this helps.
Later
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timstich
May 22, 2003, 4:43 AM
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I've found that outdoors climbs are actually easier because you don't waste time looking for lots of silly ass tape and you can put your foot where you bloody well want to. Oh no! I was supposed to track feet. Bahh. Besides, it's hard to care about gym routes.
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arrowhead
May 22, 2003, 6:34 AM
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Before going outdoors, I'd been climbing indoors for 1.5 years or so... and my first few climbs outdoors were absolutely terrifying, even on the easiest of routes.
I got confused because there were no marked handholds or footholds, didn't know where to go, or what to do. And there was the general outdoor feel itself. So exposed, and the rock texture was rough and sharp.
But after a while, you get used to it, and the styles & techniques employed on my outdoor climbs felt significantly different to those that I do indoors. So much so, that sometimes I find great difficulty in working on indoor routes on the same grades that I do outdoors.
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ricardol
May 22, 2003, 7:54 AM
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Leading outdoors is a much bigger head-game than leading indoors .. there is more to worry about when you're on real rock.
I can lead indoors up to 5.10c ..
outdoors i've led 5.9 sport and 5.8 trad ..
-- ricardo
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timstich
May 22, 2003, 12:16 PM
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In reply to: Before going outdoors, I'd been climbing indoors for 1.5 years or so... and my first few climbs outdoors were absolutely terrifying, even on the easiest of routes. I got confused because there were no marked handholds or footholds, didn't know where to go, or what to do. And there was the general outdoor feel itself. So exposed, and the rock texture was rough and sharp. But after a while, you get used to it, and the styles & techniques employed on my outdoor climbs felt significantly different to those that I do indoors. So much so, that sometimes I find great difficulty in working on indoor routes on the same grades that I do outdoors.
Your experience outdoors for the first time coming out of the gym is pretty common from what I hear. You have to admit that outdoors the possibilities for what you can do are vast compared to the gym. Rarely in a gym can you find routes with anything near the rest potential that outdoor routes usually have. You can go from a ledge to a cave to an overhang and back to a ledge outside. Ledges in general are lacking in gyms, no doubt because of the danger of hitting them. And variations in steepness tend to be simple indoors. Outdoors everything increases in its complexity and configuration. And the routes don't go away when someone gets bored, so working them makes more sense. It will be there tomorrow.
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vtposer
May 22, 2003, 12:29 PM
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I personaly find that Gym routes are much harder, something about being restricted to certain holds throws off my style of climbing. The challange of climbing outside is routfinding. And it always gives me a good feeling when you find all the easy holds on a route. :D
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faranda
May 22, 2003, 3:32 PM
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As I could see based on your comments.. I found that is relative... and it depends on many variables, physical, technical, even emotional, as the same way that 2 routes indoor with the same 10s could be technically different. It could depends also from the route setter... and of course from the climber capabilities... am I right ?
Thanks again... !
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mhr2000
May 22, 2003, 3:59 PM
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I've climbed mostly at the gym, but have been on a few real rock routes on TR. I've done a lot of scrambling also before I got into roped climbing. So far I think outside is a bit easier. What the gym lacks is 3 dimensions and I'm not talking about sloped walls and overhangs. I'm talking about all the handholds being on the same plain which is unrealistic. On real rock I find that holds can be anywhere from 2" to 18" apart depth wise. I remember finding more rest spots also where you can brace your legs and take a breather. I'm sure some gyms spend the $$ to make theirs more realistic though.
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rryeates
May 22, 2003, 9:16 PM
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In the local gym I am lucky if I can do a 5.7. The routes seem to be set incredibly hard. Outside I have climbed 5.9 without too much trouble. One thing I have definitely noticed outside is that my comfort level goes way down when I am up high (100 ft+). Never have that problem in the gym, but then again I am never really that high in the gym (60 ft max). Hopefully the heights thing will become less of an issue for me as I gain more experience.
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corpse
May 22, 2003, 10:11 PM
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The 2 gyms I've been 2 seem to have been pretty close to the outside.. In some cases, the gym I normally go to seems to be harder than outside places?? the 5.10's at hte gym I can barely make 2 or 3 moves - whereas I've tried a couple 5.10's outdoors and have been able to make progress (albeit, LOTS of rests!).. But the 5.10's I've done outdoors have had cracks - and I seem to be much better at cracks than face/plastic climbing.
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chingas
May 22, 2003, 10:46 PM
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I think this post proves that, with regards to the "bigger picture" of climbing, numbers are irrelevant.
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spinnerstyle
May 22, 2003, 11:56 PM
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I am also primarily a gym rat (only cuz the rocks around me suck). Yet at my gym the routes are graded rather difficultly. i have done a decent amount of climbing outdoors and i have noticed it is easier outside. You can use anything and you aren't confined to tape. A .10 at my gym is more like a .9 outside.
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scallywag
May 23, 2003, 12:54 AM
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Well amongst all the other reasons indoor is so different to outdoor is the height factor. routes are set for the average height of a male (i presume :?: ) and when i get on the harder routes in a gym i definitely find that my 5'6" stance is a definite disadvantage. there are some 5.9/10's that i can't even get off the ground on. Not complaining....just an observation that the routes obviously have to be aimed at the majority of the population and with one option forced moves and the inability to dyno, things get a bit harder!
I have only climbed at the gym a couple times, its a good place to get friends into climbing, but i definitely am not too interested at the level i climb when i am there as it is just uncomparable to outdoors and thats where its at for me! :D
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moabbeth
May 23, 2003, 1:09 AM
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Climbing outside is FAR more challenging for many reasons. First, outside you don't have neato colored plastic tape and color-coated rocks telling you where you climb (especially trad where you have to know where to place gear). Second, plastic gym holds SUCK. There is nothing that compares to real rock, but if you've lived your climbing career on greasy indoor plastic holds you're in for a shock when you climb on something that varies from crag to crag (sandstone, limestone, granite) and your technique then varies with the rock itself. Not to mention with real rock you actually have to think about what you're doing - you can knock rock loose and injure yourself or others. Cause in gyms you're not gonna knock a 6 oz. plastic hold loose and yell "HOLD" and watch to see if it injures someone 15 ft beneath you.
Oh yeah, climbing outside actually has variables you cannot control...like weather! While it's always clear and 72 in the gym, outside you have to deal with heat, wind, rain, etc...things that make climbing more challenging. Try climbing a route that starts heating up bigtime during the afternoon to the point where the rubber soles of your unlined Mad Rocks start feeling like they're literally burning your foot. Doesn't happen inside the gym. Or try being on a multipitch route hearing your leader yell "on belay" when the wind is kicking up to the point that you can't hear him say that without a hand-held radio.
Not to mention outside the length of routes - GASP - actually varies!! They aren't all the same height like the ceiling of some crappy indoor facility. You'll have longer routes that will challenge your stamina more.
IMO climbing gyms suck donkeys. I can't think of a more miserable way to spend my day than inside some stupid loud gym when I can be outside on the real thing so easily (god bless SOCAL!!).
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hosgh
May 26, 2003, 6:44 PM
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What is your problem moabbeth. If it wasn't for climbing gyms - GASP - I would never get climb. There is no need to have a major freak out over people going to the gym, I don't see whats wrong with climbing where weather is not a factor. You know what else is good about gyms :?: if you live in Michigan, where there are pretty much no places to climb outdoors, you climb in a gym, or you don't climb.
It sounds to me like you have no idea what you are talking about, well weather may not be a factor indoors, you can still get good on those little 6 oz. plastic holds, and i can't possibly fathom why not having to worry about getting your skull crushed by falling rocks is a bad thing? Could some one please explain this to me?
In reply to: IMO climbing gyms suck donkeys. I can't think of a more miserable way to spend my day than inside some stupid loud gym when I can be outside on the real thing so easily (god bless SOCAL!!).
Once again i would like to point out that not everyone in the world can walk to a crag near their houses. The nearest outdoor climb near my house is more than 2 hours away, coupled with the fact that im not 16 and therefore can't drive, spending a afternoon at the local gym does actually sound pretty damn good compared to the alternative.
In reply to: Not to mention outside the length of routes - GASP - actually varies!! They aren't all the same height like the ceiling of some crappy indoor facility. You'll have longer routes that will challenge your stamina more. |
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calfcramp
May 26, 2003, 7:19 PM
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Hey there,
I started climbing more seriously around Christmas. Being in the Great White North, gyms are the only way to go. (Ice climbing, I guess.... not equipped, and too far...)
Anyhoo, I've gotten the chance to go outside a couple of times now that the weather is improving. I'd say that the routes are easier outdoors to my experience so far. You get a few hard moves outside, no doubt, but the stretches between holds are filled with a lot more options.
I was with a crew of 4 others and none of us finished the routes pulling the same moves. It allows for a lot more creativity!
Hunting for holds is definitely more difficult outside when you're stuck. I found myself panting at rest points without even being pumped, just stressed. Once I realised, I calmed down and it was all good :wink:
Outdoors is great, but gyms definitely have their place. Those who poo poo the gym do not:
A) live where there is real winter
B) realise how good they've got it, give the rest of us a break already!
Climbing is climbing. Gravity doesn't let up indoors. But the mind thing is a huge part of the outdoor game.
Have fun whereever you go. That's what it's all about right? Don't get caught up in the circle of spit.
C
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greenpartyclimber
May 26, 2003, 8:22 PM
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as a primarily an outdoor climber who rarely climbs on plastic, I find the indoors much more challenging. I think this is primarly because the route setters at my gym tend to just make the routes harder by increasing the length between holds, and since I'm fairly short this makes things hard. It's much more time consuming to set routes with difficult technical moves than long reachy ones between bad holds, but in nature you seldom find a route that's long and reachy like that.
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brutusofwyde
May 26, 2003, 11:42 PM
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In reply to: i think one of the biggest factors by way of holds is the number of intermediate holds available outside. you can put your feet on any numb of real rock and it is all good. hard to put on 400 foot chips for a route in the gym.
Generator Crack: 400 foot chips doesn't even begin to describe it. :roll:
Brutus
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