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one900johnnyk
May 21, 2003, 7:31 PM
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i need to beef up my rack a little with hexes. i primarily want these for a just-in-case scenario, particularly leaving them behind if i need to bail or make a rap anchor... i just want a few (3 or 4) but i want them to be useful for protection while climbing as well... i know it depends on where i climb but i really do plan on climbing all over so based on my current rack, what would you suggest? (and why am i only finding wired hexes??!!)
trango flex cams: 1-8
dmm 3cu's: 1.25-1.75
stoppers: 1-13, doubled on sizes 5-11 or so..
tricams: first four sizes
..i have always been told to stay away from hexes and just get cams but if i need to fix a piece of gear on a hand crack i really only have one tricam, and two cams i can leave behind (obviously NOT cool with leaving a cam...).. so i was thinking some of the bigger sizes. would buying some smaller hexes be prudent too? thanks!
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shaggyj
May 21, 2003, 7:40 PM
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Nothing make me feel better than a bomber hex..... Simple = good....
Shorelinemt has a full set (3-9, 7 Total) of Wild Country Rockcentrics slung on Dyneema. This Dyneema is supposedly stronger and lighter than spectra. You can clip right into the runner instead of having to use a whole nother draw. Its a pretty good deal, but I hate to endorse online shops, but ask your local outfitter to give you a better deal.
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tenn_dawg
May 21, 2003, 7:43 PM
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Well, the reason you are finding wired hex's is because they are much eaiser to place, and worth every penny of the extra cash. I've got the "sling em yourself" kind, and am not particularly fond of them.
They are cheap, however.
If you just want bail pieces, get the cheapest hex's you can find in the middle to large sizes. The small ones are the most difficult to place correctly, and 9 times out of 10, a nut will work better.
Hex's are, in my opinion, the most difficult pieces to place on lead. The wired kind helps a little, but the overall flaw is that you have to choose exactly the correct size. One size too big, and it won't fit. One size too small, and it won't hold.
If you can place them good, they're bomber. And there is nothing like being out of cams, and only have a hex that will fit, while slowly greasing out of a handcrack, and remembering why you didin't like the damn things in the first place.
Travis
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ptone
May 21, 2003, 7:44 PM
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I don't even have cams (too much $ right now) so trad with passive only.
I have a set of camp hexes (straight sides) on cordalettes, and the larger WC rockcentrics. The rockcentrics are cool, they seem to torque in a little more positively than the camp around here (crystally granite) because the cutaway fits over irregularities a bit better.
They mix well with my nuts. (wallnuts and stoppers) I wouldn't want to have to leave them behind!
The largest WC Rcntrk is pretty big too, at almost 15 cm across.
I use the smaller camp hexes as much as nuts as passive cams.
I've never tried wire-slung ones.
Seems they'd maybe be easier to place/clean, but wouldn't sit as solid in place. I find hexes sometimes sit almost loose, and a wire might wiggle them.
I'm newer tho, and might be way off.
Just my 2 cents!
peace,
-p
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angelaa
May 21, 2003, 8:25 PM
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Why add Hexes? If you looking for a versitle piece of gear that isn't too expensive to leave behind . . then you should be looking at the TriCam!
These are not too expensive, and if your only buying a few, you'd be more likely to fit one in the slot you need too!!!
They have a very wide range and are SUPER easy to place (with a little practice).
I love them! :D
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petsfed
May 21, 2003, 8:57 PM
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The big hollow ones. Any solid hexes are not useful for their size. Nuts work just as well. I use the 4-10 on virtually every climb I do. Mind you I climb at Vedauwoo so that might explain it.
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shortfatoldguy
May 21, 2003, 9:44 PM
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What tenn_dawg said. I sometimes carry 3 or 4 med-lg ones, esp. if I have to build anchors--saves the cams for leading. And I do like the wired ones; I find them easier to place. When I was climbing in the old days, I had them slung with perlon, but when I started up again a couple years ago I bought a set of wired. Much nicer. You can always sling 'em long if you have to.
Tri-cams still strike me as exotic things that only deranged alpine climbers (a redundancy?) use, but I haven't had the chance to play with them much yet. It's the need to set them that worries me. You get a good hex placement, and your heart grows two sizes that day.
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tradmanclimbs
May 21, 2003, 9:53 PM
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Don't waste your money on cow bells. They will make you pump out and then you will have to bail. If you have enough cams you will never have to bail from a hand crack as you will be able to at the verry least, french your way up to the next belay and retrete from there. Same goes for tri cams. Pain to place and more of a pain to clean. Save the dough and put it twords cams. You will climb better and bail less. Might even start to find booty cams left by the guys that pumped out placeing their hexes and then bailed off the cams they didn't trust on lead. My buddy from indian creek has 8 #2 camalots and he only bought 2 of them, the rest were all booty.
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shortfatoldguy
May 21, 2003, 10:00 PM
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In reply to: My buddy from indian creek has 8 #2 camalots and he only bought 2 of them, the rest were all booty.
:wink:
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holmeslovesguinness
May 21, 2003, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: Tri-cams still strike me as exotic things that only deranged alpine climbers (a redundancy?) use, but I haven't had the chance to play with them much yet. It's the need to set them that worries me. You get a good hex placement, and your heart grows two sizes that day.
I just started using tricams (pink and red) and they are nice pieces to have for oddball placements where other passive gear won't work well. They certainly take some practice to get used to, and I wouldn't try thumbing one in while I was gripped, but otherwise they seem really solid. How hard they are to set really depends on the placement - I've found a few places where I could set it easily and quickly with one hand, other times it's been a bit of a cluster trying to seat it in some hard to reach spot.
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tenn_dawg
May 21, 2003, 10:11 PM
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In reply to: You get a good hex placement, and your heart grows two sizes that day.
Haha, That's classic.
Travis
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tenn_dawg
May 21, 2003, 10:15 PM
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In reply to: I've found a few places where I could set it easily and quickly with one hand, other times it's been a bit of a cluster trying to seat it in some hard to reach spot.
The real fun comes when it's time to clean them. I will only include them in my team's gear if I am leading exclusively. Not kidding. And if you fall on one...forget it, it's fixed. Especially the little pink guy. The small ones are a good addition for pockets, and horizontal slots.
Travis
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shortfatoldguy
May 21, 2003, 10:24 PM
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^^Yeah, I've set a couple in pockets and thought, "Hm, tri-cams..."
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ambler
May 21, 2003, 10:43 PM
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Hex nuts are usually inferior to cams in parallel-sided cracks. It's worth noting that in some other placements, hexes might be safer than cams -- cracks that flare rapidly upwards or inwards, for example. So even apart from weight or cost issues, it's good to be proficient with both.
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one900johnnyk
May 22, 2003, 1:36 AM
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great thanks for the responses everyone.
In reply to: Tri-cams still strike me as exotic things that only deranged alpine climbers (a redundancy?) use, but I haven't had the chance to play with them much yet. It's the need to set them that worries me. You get a good hex placement, and your heart grows two sizes that day.
hahaha.. tricams were some of the first pieces i had on my rack.. id on't know if that has anything to do with it but i invariably see good placements for them. and get a lot of use out of the red and pink. i'm a huge fan, i say get the first two at least and play with them. i had to set a hanging belay the other day on a sketchy off fingers crack... first thing i did was reach for that red tri cam and slip it in camming mode and hook myself into it... absolutely solid piece, and they really are versatile... sometimes they can be hard to clean but that one came out surprisingly easy.. next anchor i had to set had to be solid and was a hand crack that i could fit two cams in.. i always like at least three pieces and at least one passive piece (still learning to trust those cams) and the ONLY other thing on my rack i could set was a number 3 tricam... a little sketchy but it was all i ahd and the rock was strong, it wasn't going anywhere... love those things. thanks for the recommendation on the wired hexes, i was so opposed to those things four hours ago..
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pico23
May 22, 2003, 4:04 AM
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In reply to: Nothing make me feel better than a bomber hex..... Simple = good.... Shorelinemt has a full set (3-9, 7 Total) of Wild Country Rockcentrics slung on Dyneema. This Dyneema is supposedly stronger and lighter than spectra.
I might be wrong but I thought Dyneema=Spectra. That is in Europe it is marketed as Dyneema and in the US it is Spectra. Not sure how there can be a strenght difference aside from better bar tacking between brands. Food for thought.
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pico23
May 22, 2003, 4:17 AM
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In reply to: I use the smaller camp hexes as much as nuts as passive cams. I've never tried wire-slung ones. Seems they'd maybe be easier to place/clean, but wouldn't sit as solid in place. I find hexes sometimes sit almost loose, and a wire might wiggle them. I'm newer tho, and might be way off. Just my 2 cents! peace, -p
Bear in mind I don't use hexes much anymore but I did when I first started leading (which wasn't that long ago). I think the smaller ones (say BD 1-5) work better with a wire. You tend to place those more like nuts anyway and it would be tough to figit with a sling or cord in small cracks. The larger ones place well on a sling and are more stable when cammed. Or don't mess with them at all and just go with tricams for many of the same placements.
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rrrADAM
May 22, 2003, 4:42 AM
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I added hexes to my rack after[/b[ I had about 20 cams.
I got 7 and higher, as a 7 is just bigger than a #13 BD Stopper turned sideways, and I like passive over active pro.
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whichwayisup
May 22, 2003, 11:16 PM
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I would have to agree with rrradam. I love my hexes but mostly only place the 6, 8 & 9.
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shaggyj
May 23, 2003, 12:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I might be wrong but I thought Dyneema=Spectra. That is in Europe it is marketed as Dyneema and in the US it is Spectra. Not sure how there can be a strenght difference aside from better bar tacking between brands. Food for thought. Dyneema fiber was developed and patented by Hoescht-Celanese in Europe. Allied Signal in the US manufactures it under license and calls it Spectra. It's the same product, but it's just the raw fiber. Webbing/cordage manufacturers produce a wide variety of products from the raw material. |
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tradmanclimbs
May 23, 2003, 1:11 AM
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I have been climbing (A lott) for about 20 years now and obviously I started out with all passive gear. I am traditional enough to love the sound that a piton makes when it rings true under the blows of my hammer, and on granit, shist and quartzite etc I use many stoppers, but I gave up on hexes years ago. The small hexes are squirly and wear the bigger ones will work a cam will work better. cams are more multi directional which is demonstrated by how they sometimes get fixed more often than hexes or nuts. I usualy feel much safer when I get a sollid cam placement cause I know at that point that my chances of a huge zipper have just been greatly reduced. Were most tricams will work an alien will work better. Hands down. I carry the pink and red tri cams as there are some placements that are specific to those 2 pices but keep in mind that they are of cheesy construction and not ideal for anchors in situations were that belay could be subject to a factor 2 fall. I have seen busted pink tricams and the red ain't that much stronger, especially if they are old enough for the red to be pink and the pink to be white :shock: Both those slings seem to be smaller than average and that little rolled pin looks like it came from thre local hardware store. I have fallen on both but don't like it :roll: Aliens and cams ROCK 8)
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mike_gibson
May 23, 2003, 2:08 PM
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Metolius curved hexes are the best.
My curved hexes (full set with some doubles) are always the first thing I reach for on any route. They are much easier to place than the black diamond hexes.
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tim
May 23, 2003, 2:15 PM
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dude, Tom Shores IS a real person with a real shop. He's a lot better advice than the clowns at the local REI shops here, and other than some people who USED TO work for HTO, the only place you're going to find good advice in DC is Potomac Outfitters Ltd.
Might be different in Harrisonburg, and for sure in Blacksburg since the local college kids that work at Blue Ridge Outdoors climb a ton. But in DC I'd feel better about buying from Tom Shores than almost anyone else, and AFAIK Potomac Outdoors doesn't sell Rockcentrics on Dyneema (neither does the Gendarme AFAIK) so there you go.
I love mine. I rack up #4 through #7 on most climbs. They rock for dropping into Strawberry Fields up at Old Rag, or Marshall's Madness at Seneca. I protected an entire 3-pitch route at Stone Mtn. with 2 of those things (although I kind of run it out a bit on slab :-) there was one crack on U-slot and that's where I stuffed the hexes -- now I just solo it).
Bottom line, Rockcentrics on Dyneema kick tons of ass. Get some. #4 through #7 are most useful in my opinion. (I think those are the ones I use. I should double check. The middle sizes, basically.)
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bigdan
May 24, 2003, 6:39 AM
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In reply to: Well, the reason you are finding wired hex's is because they are much eaiser to place, and worth every penny of the extra cash. I've got the "sling em yourself" kind, and am not particularly fond of them.
I love the slung ones. They never dislodge from rope movement, as wired's are prone to do (though not as likely as a nut).
Of course, I haven't used one in years, so maybe it doesn't matter. It's very rare that a cam isn't better all around.
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bigdan
May 24, 2003, 6:40 AM
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In reply to: My curved hexes (full set with some doubles) are always the first thing I reach for on any route.
What weird routes are you climbing?!?
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