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rwaltermyer
May 1, 2003, 1:58 AM
Post #76 of 87
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I think your making a few assumptions, such as ppl will make the most "logical" choices which favor access to climbing areas.
what happens if the AF doesn't step in to stop a developer from purchasing another boulder field? Economics says if the price is right, maximize profits! Well, thankfully, organizations like the AF can assist in those situations.
is it perfect? no. but, as mentioned, if nothing else, they provide quality, professional help. otherwise, we'd have a bunch of angered locals taking all these access issues (oh, i forgot, they'll solve themselves) into their own hands.
furthermore, some climbers are slobs, litters, and frankly disrespectful etc. And they'll always tick off landowners. So someone needs to step in.
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darkside
May 2, 2003, 5:21 PM
Post #77 of 87
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In reply to: Dream on! The only way climbing issues will improve is if climbers are proactive. The Access Fund educates climbers on how to behave at the crag. Access issues will never go away, face it! Climbers are too apathetic. :cry:
I work on access issues. I have a number of matters active right now. I know people think "oh no he's going on about access again". I spend time, money, and personal resources on access issues. I know how much climbers are NOT pro-active.
I recieve no compensation or thanks for what I do and expect neither. I get to climb as a result of my efforts.....period.
I am getting frustrated more and more.
Many climbers are a bunch of whiners, who are too apathetic to take an interest and too lazy to be pro-active.
The solution: Let's close down the Access Fund, the ASCA, the ACCess Committee, all climber advocacy groups, all crags, all boulder fields, and climbing areas. OR....
Take responsibility for your actions, be pro-active, take an interest, follow leave-no-trace principles, be courteous & respectful of others, and realize that climbing is a privilege- not a right.
Stop your fricken bitchin about how others TRY to solve YOUR problems, get involved and make a difference. Donating guilt money is not the answer.
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drkodos
May 2, 2003, 5:27 PM
Post #78 of 87
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[quote="darkside]Take responsibility for your actions, be pro-active, take an interest, follow leave-no-trace principles, be courteous & respectful of others, and realize that climbing is a privilege- not a right.
Stop your fricken bitchin about how others TRY to solve YOUR problems, get involved and make a difference. Donating guilt money is not the answer.
Thank You....
That's all that needs to happen. There never was nor is there a need for the Fund.
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rwaltermyer
May 2, 2003, 7:13 PM
Post #79 of 87
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amen darkside...especially the climbers being whiners part. Couldn't have said it better.
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hardmann
May 6, 2003, 4:19 PM
Post #80 of 87
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Mr. Dork,
What climbing area did you allegedly purchase and preserve?
You mention that the Access Fund screws up access to climbing areas? What is an example of this?
Perhaps you are confusing your "Oliver Stone" movies with the real world...This is not Hollywood. Climbing areas are being closed every year. Do you think you can preach, "behave better" and everthing will resolve itself?
Advocacy begins at the local level -- climbers working with land managers and their local politicians. The Access Fund is the cog in the wheel to resolve access issues. The local climbing organizations are the spokes and individual climbers form the wheel to keep the train rolling and keep our climbing areas open. By spraying flames against this wheel you are spreading glass on the road and flattening the tires to roll through climbing closures.......
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tahquitztwo
May 18, 2003, 11:05 PM
Post #81 of 87
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Registered: Jun 1, 2002
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I can't remember if I ever joined the Access Fund...but I do send them donations every so often...the money I send in goes locally.
I also send in money to the ASCA....now that's a great organization! Nice to know there are folks who care about our hides enough to replace all of the miserable bolts that have been out there for years. I've been out with a couple of them a few times and I've seen the manky looking bolts that get replaced...I've also seen bolts replaced that were not that bad...just originally put in by someone who could have used a lesson on bolt placements! :shock:
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straightedgeteen
May 18, 2003, 11:59 PM
Post #82 of 87
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In reply to: Given the financial difficulties facing the access fund in the efforts.Why don't more climbers just join so that we can purchase and permanently protect our access to troubled areas?
Because some climbers are POOR but some arnt and they are the ones that are members
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deilert
May 23, 2003, 4:37 PM
Post #83 of 87
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I agree with a lot of the information on this thread. It seems that there's really just two items here.[*:f760ed0127]What you say you do (ie. "support access" by donating to The Access Fund)
[*:f760ed0127]What you actually do (ie. consideration for closures, support low impact climbing...)In my fifteen years of climbing I'll admit to climbing in areas that were "closed" and not sending in my check to the access fund. But over the years have become more mindful with my life. I am only responsible for myself and no matter how much I complain about other peoples actions, I can only be accountable for my own. At best I can set an example.
I have in the past and present supported The Access Fund. Today, I consistently practice low impact climbing and respect closures.
I currently believe that being mindful about my actions in the world is my way to participate in society (climbing and otherwise.)
My two cents,
Daren
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roclimb
May 23, 2003, 5:11 PM
Post #84 of 87
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Registered: Nov 27, 2001
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I just noticed this post for the first time.
The AF stands for much more than just Land Purchase. It was mentioned above that the AF is noted fro "everywhere but PA". Actually places like
Mocanaqua
Paradise
The Library
now allow climbing due to past Access Fund work
Birdsboro and Stoney Ridge were closed to climbing but due to local climbers and the access fund climbing was permitted at birds. and tolerated at a section of stoney.
Bauers rock aka. Big Rock Park permits climbing now from an AF event a year and a half ago.
Many other spots are in the works at the moment. If im not mistaken Chickies allows climbing due to certain efforts with the AF years ago. I admit I may be wrong about Chickies though as I live quite away from there but I thought Bob P. worked on climbing there when it was turned into a park.
It always boils down to cooperation with local climbers though. Th emore people who get involved and participate the better access is in the future.
Rob H.
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maculated
May 23, 2003, 5:19 PM
Post #85 of 87
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Registered: Dec 23, 2001
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I am a damn poor climber. When my AF membership came up for renewal, I literally couldn't afford it. I just sent in my dues again now that I have a bit more.
My stance? If you climb anywhere any organization has touched, then you should help them out. That means the minute I see evidence of the Access Fund, or a bolt stamped with ASCA that I clipped, I know it's time to help out the cause.
And that's another thing, I agree that AF has more support and is a bit more powerful, but why aren't people hyping ASCA, as well? I've seen some retrobolting and I'm not sure how I feel about that, but last week at PNM I sat on some new anchors that ASCA'd put in. How can I not support that?
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timstich
Jun 4, 2003, 1:30 PM
Post #86 of 87
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Registered: Feb 3, 2003
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In reply to: Member. Also ASCA. Another good cause. Brian in SLC
Damn skippy. Greg Barnes at ASCA is a very cool guy. He's been a big help advising me on bolt standards to try to pitch to the local climbing club members. If I only have $20, I would send $10 to him and $10 to the Access Fund. Your money goes directly into bolts, batteries, and whatever it takes to keep Greg out there rebolting. The work Greg and people like him do might directly affect your life one day.
Yes, sometimes an Access Fund play doesn't work out. Their offer of money to Hueco Tanks park super John Moses got turned down. Moses just wasn't ready to trust them it sounded like. Things will change and people will get used to each other. At least climbing is beig allowed. The Access Fund was at least there to offer *something.*
The locals who do the volunteer guiding are the real heros of Hueco, so that would dovetail quite nicely into the other poster's "get involved" rant. If I lived out there, I would guide sure as sheeot.
-Tim
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bradmc
Jul 18, 2003, 6:06 AM
Post #87 of 87
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Registered: Jan 22, 2003
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Without the AF; our local crag would have been driveway gravel. The AF wrote a 10k check very quickly and helped to save our local choss pile (a very loved little choss pile). They have donated heavily to multiple trail and evironmental education projects throughout our region for the past several years.
I am glad to do my small share to help work on local access issues (as do many across the land) and work with the AF (and our small local climbing organization) what little bit of spare time I can as I feel strongly towards saving the climbing experience.
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