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apk
May 25, 2003, 4:36 AM
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I know this has been talked about before, but i was wondering what would be better for me. I am just getting into top roping and i didn't know what belay device to get, the XP or the Reverso. From what i heard they are both really good. Is one better for top roping than the other??
Thanks.
Alex
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gogglyminotaur
May 25, 2003, 4:49 AM
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i dont know how much reverso are, but picked up a bd atc-xp cheapo just the other day. Have not gotten a chance to use it yet, but it seems it would be just as good as an atc just with a high friction mode
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ptone
May 25, 2003, 5:08 AM
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Just wondering-(would never make another forum post for the Q), but:
Why ATC-XP?
I've no problems with the friction on my 'old school' ATC, I figure unless it's enough to lock off no-hands (without stiffening the belay) why the bother?
Unless they are just trying to get people who already have perfectly good ATC's to buy the 'new improved' model...
Didn't it happen that they started making cars too well, then went back to lemons, cause they weren't selling enough anymore?
:D
peace
-p
Oops-edited to say:
Sorry apk--in response to your question--
Tho they both give a great belay,
I'd go with the ATC if you don't have any multipitch leads in your near future. It's simple and bombproof
(ALWAYS pay attention with ANY belay device), you can do tons with it, single, double, rap off one or two lines, and most importantly, it is easy to understand and use, and most people who climb are familiar with it. When you're new you'll want to climb with more than one party, having a bit of gear is always nice to offer!
The only advantage of the reverso is a moot point on tr.
Happy climbing!
-p
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belaysmurf
May 25, 2003, 5:12 AM
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if i could make sweet sweet love to my ATC XP, i would.
its pretty.
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koto
May 25, 2003, 5:56 AM
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^^^^ :lol:
Dude. You used your first post on that?!!!!
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onemistakebigpancake
May 25, 2003, 6:24 AM
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I debated over the same thing recently. I bought the ATC-XP. It's very good for belaying and rappelling. I belay kids at the gym, so the smooth side is good (like the old school ATC). When I'm climbing or belaying heavier kids, I use the high friction side as it has a better grip on the rope and you're not pumped if the climber wants to hang for a long time. For rappelling, I can "almost" hang hands-free on the high friction side.
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daisuke
May 25, 2003, 7:43 AM
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go with the ATC XP, it's a bit smoother on the rappel, it's slightly cheaper and if you're toproping you don't need the autolock feature of the reverso until you want to start doing multipitch. I went thru the same choice and the guy at the shop sold me on the ATC-XP, and not cuz it was more expensive! it's also a bit less bulky than the reverso and holds better with it's grooved thingies than the reverso ever will. and it's just plain superior over the regular ATC in that it's more versatile.
D
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koto
May 25, 2003, 8:58 AM
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I was wondering though if those grooved thingies might chew your rope.
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geezergecko
May 25, 2003, 2:23 PM
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If you are top roping and only top roping (so help you G..) then I would think that an auto (almost) locking device such as the Wild Country SRC or the Petzl (duck, shudder) Gri-Gri would be the thing to get. Now if we are talking lead climbing then yes, the ATC/XP is the better way unless you are bringing up a second on a trad climb in which case the Reverso is the answer. I use the Reverso for trad, ATC for sport, and Gri-Gri for top rope. Best tools for the job IMO.
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ptone
May 25, 2003, 2:43 PM
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( :shock: Man, kermit has some stamina!)
I think it'd be way better to start with the ATC instead of the grigri. You'll learn better habits, and be more in tune with what is going on.
But then I think everyone should learn to drive standard before they get a licence, cause automatic is just that.
peace
-p
ps for chewed rope--the groves are more pinchy and rounded on the 'XP' version, safe for rope. That said, I still think it's a totally unnecessary $8 upgrade aimed at making you buy another one! :wink:
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djnibs
May 25, 2003, 7:41 PM
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If you want an "ATC" type device, i would sugest the Bluewater one (no clue what its called). Instead of a wire, its a solid piece of metal, although a little bulkier, i like it a lot more than the wire that is on the BD ATC. As far as the XP goes, i think its another way for BD to make more money. I would just get the old one. As far as top roping goes, if you are belaying really heavy people, i would sugest the XP, but if your not, regular ATC all the way. Reverso are really good (i own one, and i love it), but if you have no plans to do any multi pitch, i wouldn't bother. ATC's are truly a great belay. Good luck with your choice!!!
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shivers86
May 25, 2003, 11:10 PM
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Go with the ATC, it belays much smoother than the reverso and makes less noise and is cheaper. I really don't see why you'd need the XP. Just seems like a gimmick.
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canadianclimber
May 25, 2003, 11:41 PM
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I have a reverso and I really like it. It belays really smoothly and rappelling is nice too. If you do use it for multipitch eventually, it will come in handy as well. Both the atc and the reverso would be good buys but I would suggest the reverso, unless you plan on belaying a lot of people that are heavier than you. In that case I'd say get the atc-xp.
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jimdavis
May 26, 2003, 12:25 AM
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Reverso all the way. It has a high friction mode as well, it's just awesome for multi-pitch and top belays (even if your not doing it now...why buy something you know you'll have to replace when you get into it?) you can use it to ascend, you can use it as a PCD in a Haul System, and it's just about the same price.
Talk to anyone who knows the multiple uses of the reverso, i'd bet they'd all recomend it.
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e_wire
May 26, 2003, 12:30 AM
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Go with the XP. I've used both and the reverso is good for Trad climbing because you can belay from the wall. XP is more efficient and demands less strenght to hold a climber. Also very good for rappels.
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yomomma
May 26, 2003, 1:57 PM
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I'd go with the ATC-XP. It's a great device, especially for top-roping because: 1) it's real easy to hold somebody who's hangdogging. 2) it provides a very smooth lower on top-rope -- you're partner will appreciate that. 3) it won't twist your rope.
For the people who dis the XP as a useless upgrade, you're wrong. I'm sure BD wants to sell more devices. I'm also sure they put alot of thought and research into the design of the XP, and it's performance proves it. I like the Trango Jaws device more than the regular ATC, but I like the XP even better than the Jaws.
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roninthorne
May 26, 2003, 2:28 PM
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Just my 2 cents worth...
If you wanna buy something with a lot of potential applications and some pretty smart design features, my vote is for the Reverso. It works for aid, lead, TR, rappell, and ascending. It doesn't have a cute, plastic coated steel cable to chew on rap, like the old ATC did (don't know if they changed that for the upgrade). It's got a bomber steel loop to clip into before you unclip it form your harness and pull the rop out of it, making those big-wall/multipitch "Ooops... shit!" episodes less likely. And, and.... well, heck, I just plain like the thing.
If you're dead set on something ATC-like, I also like my Trango Pyramid... but I understand myself to be in the minority on that call...
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rockmx
May 26, 2003, 2:52 PM
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REVERSO
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coldclimb
May 26, 2003, 5:26 PM
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I'd definately go with the reverso. I love mine to death ;) , but I haven't ever used the XP.
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simzboardr
May 27, 2003, 2:29 AM
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Reverso... hands down...love the autolocking feature
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crackaddict
May 27, 2003, 2:53 AM
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I just bought the atc-xp. Not sure how it works yet. Got it for sport and hangdogs.
I am a proud owner of a reverso and I love it. Especially on trad.
But I have noticed that since I have been using the reverso that my rope gets coated with aluminum oxide much quicker. And my rope needs to be washed more often.
People have asked me if I use a Gri Gri. I guess that coating Petzl uses on the metal wears off on your rope.
Have any other of you Reverso users noticed this?
Just wondering?
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pico23
May 27, 2003, 8:09 PM
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I don't honestly know for TR'ing which is better. I have the ATC (standard) and the Reverso. Personally, I use the ATC 99% of the time. The reverso is awesome but I see no benefit to it for TRing. For the most part I use the ATC and the Munter unless I am leading multipitch on 1/2 ropes. The reverso has some neat capabilities like it can be used as an ascender and it self locks the second(s) but unless you used those functions I don't see an advantage to it over the standard ATC.
I looked at the ATC-XP and kind of wondered WTF. I don't really see a huge improvement and definitely not enough to trash my ATC for a ATC-XP. Honestly I get tons of friction on the ATC and if I need more I can add a second biner. More then likely even if I was buying a ATC from scratch I'd go with the standard ATC.
If you are just top roping why not consider a Gri Gri. Seems like they are well suited for the task.
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roninthorne
May 27, 2003, 9:05 PM
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In reply to: I am a proud owner of a reverso and I love it. Especially on trad. But I have noticed that since I have been using the reverso that my rope gets coated with aluminum oxide much quicker. And my rope needs to be washed more often. Have any other of you Reverso users noticed this?
I haven't... but, then again, my ropes usually get trashed so fast that whatever is getting distributed on the outside, short of bleach or battery acid, is the least of my worries. Living in the humid south, I've always taken for granted that we would have a bit more oxidization that elsewhere in the country, so maybe it's a detail I've blanked out.... like most of the end of the 80s....
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bigdrop
May 27, 2003, 10:51 PM
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I suggest the ATC
If your going to use the DEVICE for TOP ROPPING only then you will have no need for the additional features offered by the REVERSO.
The ATC is simpler to use becuse it does less.
With that said, I use a REVERSO all the time and rarely touch my gri gri anymore even for top ropping.
~jca
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deadfish
May 28, 2003, 1:04 AM
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I started climbing with a regular ATC. Great all-around device for 10.5 or similar diameter ropes. At the time, for multi-pitch, I was using a Munter hitch off the anchor which worked great for bringing up seconds. I bought a Reverso to try out and really loved the auto-locking mode for belaying seconds. It rappels smoother than the ATC. Overall, highly recommended. Recently, I started climbing on double ropes (8.5mm). The regular ATC is not the best choice for this application, though you can add another biner to increase friction. The Reverso works well, but the Trango B-52 I bought recently seems to work better with skinny ropes. The advantage of the ATC-XP over the regular ATC is similar, more friction when you climb with skinnies.
With the three devices I own, I carry the B-52 most often. By far the smoothest lower/rappel of any device I have ever used. Slightly more difficult to take in slack with fuzzy fat ropes, but feeds slack like a dream. And it has the same auto-locking mode as the Reverso.
The best device for you depends on your application. If you will be using skinny ropes, get a device with higher friction (ATC-XP, B-52). If you will be leading multi-pitch, get an auto-locking device (B-52, Reverso). If you are going to top-rope with a beefy 11mm rope, get a standard ATC.
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