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oldandintheway
May 29, 2003, 4:17 AM
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Heres to Sir Edmund and Tenzing. Cheers, good show, and thanks.
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moabbeth
May 29, 2003, 4:21 AM
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Yep. Who'da thunk that all these years later there would be Sherpas who could sprint up that thing and back down to basecamp in under 11 hours.
Too bad that chopper went down today there. Killed two people. There was even video of it going down that is on the newscasts now too.
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the_elk
May 29, 2003, 4:46 AM
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YAY! Happy Everest 50th anniversary hoopla! Woo Hoo!
Just for interests sake I went to an exhibition here in Melb. Oz a few days ago that was showing the photo's from the Hillary expedition 1953. Alfred Gregory, the photographer was there too.... Very inspirational and moving. Some amazing photographs, one in particular was incredible, of Tenzing Norgay, a portrait, looking up toward the mountain goggles on and all.... said it all for me! Bloody awsome!
Cheers!
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dlintz
May 29, 2003, 7:21 AM
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I toast to Tenzing and the mountain but not Edmund.
The more interviews I hear the more I'm of the impression his ego is still overinflated. He's also called for the complete closure of Everest to future parties. Hmm, maybe that's not such a bad idea afterall.
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overlord
May 29, 2003, 9:33 AM
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edmunt has an ego the size of the mountain he climbed.
hes a classic english gentleman.
why close everest??? so he would be one in 1200 who summited and not one in 100000. so he would be better remembered. "yo, man, that bad a$$ edmund summited the mountain we are not alloved to even look at. he must have been a real bad a$$."
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richardiii
May 29, 2003, 11:37 AM
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Hillary is a New Zealander. That's a little small country which is pretty much the other side of the earth from England. And it's a seperate country, just in case you didn't realise that.
OK, petty nationalistic rant over.
I'm tempted to speculate on why some people feel the need to spew such petty bile about the guy.
It doesn't matter how many people climb the mountain after him, he and Tenzing were still first. He just called for a reduction on the number of permits issued. However, I really doubt he suffers from the petty inferiority complex that dlintz and overlord identify with.
What did he do after Everest? Well, aside from things like driving a tractor to the south pole and a jet-boat up the Ganges, he established and worked very hard for a charitable trust that has done more for the Sherpas than any number of the spoilt rich "climbers" who Sherpas now babysit all the way up.
Why does he want Everest to be temporarily closed and or the number of permits reduced? Well, unlike the mind readers amongst us, I can't say anything more than what I've heard.
1) An ascent of Everest is now becoming nothing more than a purchaseable ego trip, testifying to the depths of ones pockets and a bit of luck with the weather. It's degrading to real mountaineers and to the mountain.
2) There's so many people up there now, that it's endangering lives. One of the contributing factors to the 1996 disaster was the bottlenecking of clients.
3) At least until recently (I've heard it has been cleaned up) Everest resembled a big rubbish heap.
Well that's my $.02
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onbelay_osu
May 29, 2003, 1:47 PM
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congrats to hillary and norgay and all else who have summited ... i too hope to be on the the millions (by the time i get there thats what the number will be!) to stand on the summit.... cheers to all mountianeers who really show the world time and time agian that dreams are more than just what happens when you are asleep!!!!!!
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xkyczar
May 29, 2003, 2:22 PM
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Two good pieces in the nytimes today (free reg required).
An article on Hillary:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/29/international/asia/29NEPA.html
points out that he (his foundation) has built "27 schools, 12 clinics, 2 hospitals, 2 airfields and a couple of dozen bridges". I also thought this was interesting:
"To celebrate the anniversary of the ascent, Sir Edmund, having turned down an invitation from Queen Elizabeth II, will share a quiet dinner with lifelong Sherpa friends who have journeyed to this capital to see him.".
Also a good piece by TASHI TENZING, the grandson of Tenzing Norgay, talking about the changes - good and bad - occuring in the Sherpa society since the first ascent of Everest. Tashi has climbed Everest twice.
"Commercial mountaineering has created a quandary: it is a great boon for us financially, but in our hearts we worry about the safety of amateur climbers and the sanctity of our beloved mountains.
Still, I have been lucky. I have managed to hold on to both worlds. I have reached the summit of Everest twice but have never had to carry 75-pound porter loads as my grandfather and so many other Sherpas did. In fact, in 1993, I was the first Sherpa to lead an international climbing team (an expedition in which Western climbers carried their own loads). "
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/29/opinion/29TENZ.html
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dingus
May 29, 2003, 2:42 PM
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In reply to: 1) An ascent of Everest is now becoming nothing more than a purchaseable ego trip, testifying to the depths of ones pockets and a bit of luck with the weather. It's degrading to real mountaineers and to the mountain.
In reply to: 2) There's so many people up there now, that it's endangering lives. One of the contributing factors to the 1996 disaster was the bottlenecking of clients.
In reply to: 3) At least until recently (I've heard it has been cleaned up) Everest resembled a big rubbish heap.
The tourism is bringing in hard cash to a region that has historically been among the world's most impovrished areas. A cash economy exists where non was before. No, it is not as it was in the past. Nor will it ever be that again, Hillary himself saw to that. Hillary played as large a role in that as anyone.
Why can't the locals make money off their mountains in the fine European alpine tradition? Do people cry over the lost povety of Chamonix? That place was a sty of death before mountaineering caught hold.
In the end, outsiders are debating the fate of land we don' own, in countries we weren't born in, without asking or considering what those folks would like to see happen. In this particular case it's up to the Nepalese and the Chinese governments to decide. While I don't have a lot of confidence in either government to do right by it's poorest citizens, who the heck am I to tell them to close their mountain and cut off a local cash flow?
Cat's out of the bag. I hope those good folks make the absolute best of it, and shake down every climber and every tourist for every dollar they can. If I were in charge I'd issue MORE permits, but I'd charge more too. If climbers are ABLE to pay 50k for a guide, in the name of 7 summits or whatever it is they seek, they'd be ABLE to pay a 50k permit fee too.
I'd go for IMF loans and help to see that commercial establishments were built all along the "road" to basecamp, owned and operated by Nepalese citizens. Those poor folks are fighting a civil war, due in large part to poverty and corruption. Education and money are the only cures. This is a sure and established money train and they would be fools to turn it away.
DMT
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marcel
May 29, 2003, 3:39 PM
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In reply to: Hillary is a New Zealander. That's a little small country which is pretty much the other side of the earth from England. And it's a seperate country, just in case you didn't realise that. What did he do after Everest? Well, aside from things like driving a tractor to the south pole and a jet-boat up the Ganges, he established and worked very hard for a charitable trust that has done more for the Sherpas than any number of the spoilt rich "climbers" who Sherpas now babysit all the way up.
Right on! Hillary is one heck of a cool dude. He is much less conceded than any other big name climber. And he put his fame to good uses building schools and hospitals for the Sherpas.
I had the great fortune of meeting him about 30 years ago, and he seemed like just any normal guy off the street. My son who was an exchage student had even a greater fortune when he had dinner at Hillarys house in NZ. My son had nothing but praise for him, and the greatest respect for a truly great mountaineer!
Please, before you trash Hillary, please look at all the good things this man has done!
Congradulations on 50 years!
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pisceian
May 29, 2003, 3:50 PM
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A Roanoke College (the college I go to) graduate just reached the summit of Everest on May 22! Congratulations to Sean Burch!
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richardiii
May 30, 2003, 4:57 AM
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In reply to: You're telling me (Hillary's suggesting?) that Mallory, Shackleton, Hunt, et al didn't have EGO's the size of freight trains? And I wonder, how does one go about degrading a mountain? If the professional climbers weren't so busy guiding those ego-trippers to the summit of Everest it might lend some credence to the notion that they're being degraded.... to the tune of 50K a pop. That's some high priced degradation. Can I have some?
My objection was to the purchaseable part of the ego trip. Buying a summit is and entirely different level of egomania than simply wanting to climb something. I believe these men would have climbed Everest simply because it was there.
It's not the guides who are being degraded, they should be free to prostiture their skills if they want. It's mountaineers who, for whatever reason, don't babysit spoiled middle aged children up Everest who are being degraded. Their experiences are cheapened by every idiot with $100 grand to spare.
[quote="dingus"]
Cat's out of the bag. I hope those good folks make the absolute best of it, and shake down every climber and every tourist for every dollar they can. If I were in charge I'd issue MORE permits, but I'd charge more too. If climbers are ABLE to pay 50k for a guide, in the name of 7 summits or whatever it is they seek, they'd be ABLE to pay a 50k permit fee too.
I'd go for IMF loans and help to see that commercial establishments were built all along the "road" to basecamp, owned and operated by Nepalese citizens. Those poor folks are fighting a civil war, due in large part to poverty and corruption. Education and money are the only cures. This is a sure and established money train and they would be fools to turn it away.
/quote]
I hope the Nepalese government and the Sherpas make the most of it too. If it came to a straight choice, I'd certainly rather see the money go to them than to the commercial guides. The problem is, that what the Nepal government has to sell is the mystique of climbing Everest. Which is steadily eroded by each and every guided party that summits successfully. They're dealing with a natural resource somewhat akin to a forest - every permit they sell is like chopping down a tree. The question is whether it's better for Nepal to clearcut the metaphorical forest and replace it with Himalaya-Disneyland or to harvest the resource forever. By reducing the number of permits they sell, they can increase the price they achieve for each permit and also stimulate future demand.
Mountain climbing also looks bad when the opposite happens and guided groups don't make it to the summit. The guides want to shovel as many people up to the top as possible, to hell with experience, safety or any issues like that. You're capable of walking and have money to piss away? Great! Give me $75,000 and I can take you to the top of the world. Eventually, this will backfire and people will realise that the only thing that getting someone like Scott Fisher or Rob Hall to drag them up to the summit proves is that they have more money than sense.
Hey, why not just build a cable car up to the top? Charge people $50,000 a pop. Everyone wins.
Rich
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slappy
May 30, 2003, 5:28 AM
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dlintz
as a kiwi i object strongly to your statement about my personal hero.
this man's ego is so huge his phone number is listed in the phone book, you could look it up if you want on www.whitepages.co.nz you can give him a call, pop round and have a cup of tea. lots of people do it.
don't insult what you don't know. it's boorish and offensive.
rant over.
yay hillary and tenzing for their awesome achievement and all the work that has been put into nepal to make the nepalis life better.
may i grow to be as good a person as they.
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socialclimber
May 30, 2003, 11:47 AM
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dlintz, You may have bought yourself into a bun fight with your comments about our Ed. There are a lot of ways Ed Hillary could have exploited his fame for personal wealth but instead he's traded on his name to raise millions of dollars for his Himalaya Trust while he gets by on a modest income.The Trust uses the funds for infrastructure projects in Nepal. You might be mistaking egotism for frankness and determination .
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dlintz
May 30, 2003, 12:26 PM
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slappy and socialclimber, perhaps I was being a little hard on him but something about him rubs me the wrong way. Just my opinion.
richardiii, inferiority complex? How many articles/interviews have I read about Edmund? Countless. How many articles/interviews have you read about me? None. STFU.
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richardiii
May 30, 2003, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: richardiii, inferiority complex? How many articles/interviews have I read about Edmund? Countless. How many articles/interviews have you read about me? None. STFU.
And that might be the problem. This guy's getting all the attention and people saying what a wonderful person he is, and the true hero (D.Lintz) is not. Getting angry because people haven't written articles about you is classic inferiority complex stuff :P
Seriously though, I wasn't actually suggesting you have any sort of psychological disorder. I was just making a silly statement to respond to your silly (as I saw it) statement. I apologise if I caused any real offence.
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moabbeth
May 31, 2003, 12:46 AM
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OMG slappy, that is so awesome!! I can't believe I just looked up Edmund Hilary's phone number and got it. What a trip.
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mark99
Jun 1, 2003, 11:36 PM
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He is one of the few people in this world who is true of spirit and of heart. He is most famous for climbing Everest, but the amount of other achievements and work he has done for others is truly amazing.
For people to make half arse remarks about someone without even making an effort to find more information about them really ticks me off.
Just because he has a large amount of interviews, does not make him " big headed " it makes him willing to talk about what he has done and like Slappy says approachable.
Well after all that here go to http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/hil0pro-1
and see what he has done in his life and then make you mind up.....
My 2 cents worth...
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