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roninthorne
May 27, 2003, 9:23 PM
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I know where I stand on this one... as much as I love the Big Ditch, with the crowds and the gawkers and the crowds and the noise and the crowds (did I mention the crowds?), my own goal as a wall climber was being a better partner and climbing anywhere but Yosemite.
All alone on my wee portaledge, with just the wind and the stone and me and the Universe, why in the world would I want to look down and see one of the world's biggest tourist traps, and know that, when my vertical journey ends, it will be down there, in the midst of it all?
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epic_ed
May 27, 2003, 10:05 PM
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Because El Cap is still "one of" the biggest, badest, awe-inspiring mutha of a hunk of granite in the world. Yosemite was the birth place of modern aid climbing, and it is steeped in historical firsts and has been the place where so much of our climbing history has taken place. That means a lot to me. Just getting on El Cap, let alone soloing it, is an act that most people still consider the realm of the "extreme" athlete. If they only knew. I love the Valley in spite of the faults and flaws that result from its popularity. I tear up every time I drive through the Wawona tunnel, and it will completely take my breath away when I arrive June 7th just like it did the first time I came through that tunnel in 2000. There are a lot of beautiful places to climb in the world, many which are majestic, unexplored, awesomely beautiful, and intimidating. But to me Yosemite is more. Yosemite is magic.
Ed
In reply to: In reply to: Because El Cap is still the biggest, badest, awe-inspiring mutha of a hunk of granite in the world. Ignoring granite in Baffin Island, Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan and Patagonia, of course.
Very true and no slight intended. I modified my statement above.
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trbrts
May 27, 2003, 10:10 PM
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good answer.
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bandycoot
May 27, 2003, 10:12 PM
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ditto
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mesomorf
May 27, 2003, 10:21 PM
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In reply to: Because El Cap is still the biggest, badest, awe-inspiring mutha of a hunk of granite in the world. |
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gawd
May 27, 2003, 10:34 PM
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mr mt stuart in washington.
el cap is nice because it is close to the road. it allows people to experience something they normally would not. it is not the best experience in climbing, but an enjoyable one.
don't hype it, cause you not special because you climbed it.
and who cares how fast, with whom, or how hard. attempting to measre yourself against another, only shoes your personal shortcomings.
we all just humans, so deal.
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iamthewallress
May 27, 2003, 10:51 PM
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Fact is...El Cap is the biggest thing most of us will ever climb. For most of us, climbing El Cap is the realization of a pretty big dream. If it's not your dream...so what? Do something else.
Saturday night as I rapped off of Middle Cathedral in the dark, I saw nearly 20 lights scattered across the Captain. Every time I see that, I get chills, because it's such an unbelievable priviledge to me to see that bright spark of evidence of so many people living out their dream.
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gawd
May 27, 2003, 11:19 PM
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thats a nice post wallress, though dont exacerbate it into something that it is not. certainly many will be challenged, but it still does not mean it is something to chest beat about.
like i said no one cares who you are, what you have done or what your dreams are. cept your mommy.
dont hype one little thing , to overshadow the weak life you already live.
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iamthewallress
May 27, 2003, 11:28 PM
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In reply to: certainly many will be challenged, but it still does not mean it is something to chest beat about.
Living out a dream and feeling good about it doesn't have to be about beating your chest.
In reply to: like i said no one cares who you are, what you have done or what your dreams are. cept your mommy.
I don't think my mommy would be able to tell the difference between El Cap and Everest. If I were to solo El Cap (a task I have not yet done and one that I aspire to but am most likely not yet ready to try), I would do it because I care about my dreams and what I do and have done.
In reply to: dont hype one little thing , to overshadow the weak life you already live.
Uh, why would you say that my life is "weak"? There are dreams that I still have not lived out and many that I never will live out, but on the whole, I'd say I'm pretty happy with my life. If climbing El Cap happens to be a high point, it doesn't mean that the rest is lame.
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gawd
May 27, 2003, 11:34 PM
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wallress,
i think you are missing the point. it is all good and well if that is your dream. i dont knock what each person dreams of. i just laugh at the build up. just look at pete, that is his life. attempting to attract naive little girls into believing he is something spectular doing something anyone can do if they apply themselves.
living your life based on one or few actions is pathetic. as i said no one cares.
and if i were you i would not take what i say personally, i will save that for email of some shit.
and it is sad that you cannot relate your experiences to your mother better. wouldny you think it better to have her understand your dreams completly and add support are attempt to seperate/elevate yourself above others with your actions?
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iamthewallress
May 27, 2003, 11:53 PM
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In reply to: wouldny you think it better to have her understand your dreams completly and add support are attempt to seperate/elevate yourself above others with your actions?
Huh?
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epic_ed
May 28, 2003, 12:31 AM
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Gawd -- if someone aspires to solo El Cap, and shares that as their goal in the aid climbing forum, it doesn't make them Pete Zabrok. Nor does it make them a PTPP suck up. I think people who want to solo El Cap just have an unspoken understanding among each other. Without explanation, we know why the other wants to do it. And no amount of explanation to those who don't share those aspirations can help them understand.
To me, it's not hype and it's not chest beating. I'm a humble, self-depricating guy who struggles for every inch of ground I earn on a climb. When other average, every-day-joe/jane kind of people have success with their goals it is an inspiration to me.
Is it pitiful to have dreams and aspirations? A lot of us look to others who have had success pursuing their dreams as a motivating force to pursue our own. Is that hype? Maybe it is, but why is it so unnecessary and pathetic? Big goals and big dreams are what make our otherwise ordinary and mundane lives extraoridnary. If only for a few days at a time.
Bring on the hype. I think Melissa's gonna send that muther this year.
:wink:
Ed
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brutusofwyde
May 28, 2003, 12:47 AM
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I like getting back to the Valley Floor and being able to buy cold beer.
I like the short approaches.
I like occasionally finding booty water on a route when I'm slowly dessicating.
I too get a feeling of wonder and awe looking up at bivy lights from folks in the middle of the greatest adventure of many of their lives.
Heck, I even enjoy the "Evening Howl" at sunset with 30 other parties on the walls.
Solo El Cap?
I wouldn't even consider it. I don't like my own company that much. Not all of my personalities get along.
All that said, I'd give all the luxuries, convenience, and comaraderie up in a heartbeat to see the Valley with no roads, no development, and a 20-mile cross-country approach.
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roninthorne
May 30, 2003, 12:37 PM
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In reply to: The rock has nothing to do with the tourism below...
Oh, re-e-ea-a-ally? So, if they hung "Relocated to Tuba City, AZ" signs on all the eateries and shops in the Valley, you're saying that folks would just pack up and drive out of the valley, 'cuz it ain't the rock that brings them, whether they can climb or not?
Interesting...
In reply to: Take away everything man made and it is still a good place to go. It is not a trap although it may be full of tourists.
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and I'm not gonna play gawd and take a crap all over yours just because I don't completely agree with every single word. Maybe I got more hugs as a kid. My own opinion is that, if you took away the Awahnee, and the Lodge, and the condos, and the conventions, and the buses, and folks had to hike in to get there then it would be a good place to go...
But that's just my opinion, which I already knew. Thanks for all who shared their perspectives on this... ROCK ON, where ever and however you rock!
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alpinestylist
May 30, 2003, 2:42 PM
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GAWD, you seem like a fella that doesn't get a lot of enjoyment in life, am I off?
Climbing the Captain for the first time is hands down the coolest thing I have ever done. It shook me to my core, and made me find new dreams. I've done that and plied our rogue trade in many venues.
Again, Brutus' words ring true. The more places I climb the more I miss the Ditch. I always come back. I know its crowded, noisy, sold out blah blah blah, but I accept that. Read Camp IV stories, teh same was true 40 years ago in their opinions.
Soloing El Cap was a catharsis I don't know if I will need again. Perhaps...
Going to the Valley will always be a homecoming to the clan...old friends, new friends, maybe a quick shag with a pommy girl.
Chest beating, no, event to feel proud of, yes.
The headlamps, meadow views, first sight entering the valley, first sight after ascent, celebratory beer...all amazing worthy events.
I'm not sure what objective measure there is for "proud ascents", but F an A my first lap, and every lap are just that.
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pt
Jun 5, 2003, 12:41 AM
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if you had ever hung on the last belay of any El Cap route, seconds before topping out, and reflected on how you came to be at your present location, you would never even dream up such a lame question. On a personal level it should be an awesome journey of self discovery and realization of what matters in the world. On a global level or even within the climbing community, an El Cap ascent means absolutly nothing. Until you've done it, don't comment.
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