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whichwayisup
May 30, 2003, 8:54 PM
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Just out of curiosity, how would someone bolt an overhung route? I have never bolted nor seen anyone bolt a route, I am assuming most of the time it is while rapping down. :?:
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mungeclimber
May 30, 2003, 9:01 PM
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Wow, used to be the assumption was it was bolted ground up. My how things have changed.
Sincerely,
Old'n the way
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tigerbythetail
May 31, 2003, 12:22 AM
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The best way will depend upon the route in question. If not too steep then rapping it usually works well, but if very steep (like in a cave) ground-up can be easier; sometimes a combination of the two work well.
If there is a lot of loose rock to clean off (likely since steep rock is more protected from weathering) you'll want to clean it prior to jumping on lead so you don't yard off tons of junk onto you or your belayer.
The most important thing is to seek a mentor who is experienced in this sort of thing so you learn the right way. Placing bolts is a serious business as many people besides yourself will rely upon them.
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tradmanclimbs
May 31, 2003, 12:47 AM
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A few key issues. #1 DON'T PLACE A BOLT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!!!!! Many people will put their lifes on your work so you need to learn from someone who knows their stuff.
#2 Respect the local ethics. Some areas are ground up and some are sport. There is room for both styles so don't be the ass that starts a bolt war by rap bolting in a trad area or putting up a death rt at a sport crag.
#3 Make sure that your rt is really a virgin. Just because it is hard and dirty don't mean that someone harder than youreself hasen't allready climbed it.
#4 Make sure that you place bolts that will work in the type of stone that you are dealing with.
Provideing that you have covered the above basics there are 2 ways to approach your overhang. I personaly prefer to set all rt's on lead. even at sport crags as it is way more fun and gives you a real sense of accomplishment. I take great care when aiding a new sport rt. to make sure that I place the bolts in good places for the upcoming redpoint and all the future climbers that will hopefully enjoy the route. the second method is to approach the rout as a construction project. Anything goes. Many of the rt's at rumny were bolted with the use of extension ladders as well as down aiding. the key thing is to make sure that the rt is going to be a good one 8)
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whichwayisup
May 31, 2003, 2:00 PM
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Thanks for the info, but don't worry it was for curiosity only. I was asking because of DC Memorial Bolder at Summersville Lake. It is really overhung so I was wondering how someone bolted it.
Thanks again.
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timstich
Jun 4, 2003, 2:44 AM
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I'll add what little I know about bolting overhangs, having had to bolt only one that required some aiding. It was for me definitely preferable to do that bolt ground up from the bolt right below it. I used two aiders and a BD sky hook. The rock was limestone. I had my belayer hold me tight at the bolt below it and found a hook placement. Then I shifted my weight onto the hook, keeping my hand over the back of it in case it popped off. When I was confident the hook would hold, I carefully brought the drill up and made my hole. Then I cleaned it, pounded in the bolt, and torqued it down with a torque wrench.
The rest of the route was already done, so that was the final bolt. I had to return twice to finish that route. It's pretty secluded in the Pecos and it was hard to find helpers. After the six hour drive out there, most people expect some fun for the trouble.
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tradmanclimbs
Jun 4, 2003, 3:46 AM
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Once you get the first 2 bolts in, aiding over bolts is realy not too scary and a lot more fun than rap bolting. Usualy you only need to do 2 hook moves / beaks/ bashies etc. between each bolt. Should have seen the look on this kids face the other day when I mentioned that I had solo aided the 5.12 he was working to set the bolts up there. He looked at me like I was some kind of crazy old man but there was respect in there. It was pretty cool. You won't get that from a rap bolted rt.
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roughster
Jul 20, 2003, 11:39 PM
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RBs - Route Developers best friends :)
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philbox
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Jul 21, 2003, 1:06 AM
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We`ve been developing a sandstone cliff near here and I`ve gotta tell ya that rap bolting is the way to go as we have been placing glue in big fat SS ringbolts and it simply is not feasible to go ground up. Mind you we work all the moves before deciding where to place the rings and so we are confident that they will be in the apropriate place for clipping. There are a lot of routes on this crag that go through roofs. One route took us two solid days of effort to place 8 rings.
Good aid climbing skills are a necessity for bolting roofs. I like to have a couple of the Yates adjustable daiseys on me that are clipped to a hook each and with those I can pretty much hold myself in anywhere I need to whilst I`m drilling. The worst roofs to drill are those that are horizontal, nothing that you belayer can do will get you to where you need to be and so it is all down to aiding across the void fearing the big swing if ya stuff up, fun though.
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roughster
Jul 21, 2003, 1:12 AM
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Phil,
Get some RBs, drill RB holes to get you across the roof/super steep stuff, then just go back and patch the hole when your done.
I am bolting in a quarry and the top looks like a scene from a climbers worst nightmare. Many times for me, going ground up is the only option. Having multiple RBs at about 5-6 feet apart/placement, allows me the luxury to still find the best clipping stances on the way up.
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 21, 2003, 3:12 AM
Post #11 of 15
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Why drill deep enough for rb's when you can hook your way up and feed the rat a bit while you are at it 8)
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roughster
Jul 21, 2003, 4:35 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I have used hooks as well, in addition to lots of nuts, hexes, and cams, but for my $$ the RB is indispensable :)
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renobdarb
Jul 21, 2003, 7:17 AM
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In reply to: A few key issues. #1 DON'T PLACE A BOLT UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!!!!!!! Many people will put their lifes on your work so you need to learn from someone who knows their stuff. #2 Respect the local ethics. Some areas are ground up and some are sport. There is room for both styles so don't be the ass that starts a bolt war by rap bolting in a trad area or putting up a death rt at a sport crag. #3 Make sure that your rt is really a virgin. Just because it is hard and dirty don't mean that someone harder than youreself hasen't allready climbed it. #4 Make sure that you place bolts that will work in the type of stone that you are dealing with. Provideing that you have covered the above basics there are 2 ways to approach your overhang. I personaly prefer to set all rt's on lead. even at sport crags as it is way more fun and gives you a real sense of accomplishment. I take great care when aiding a new sport rt. to make sure that I place the bolts in good places for the upcoming redpoint and all the future climbers that will hopefully enjoy the route. the second method is to approach the rout as a construction project. Anything goes. Many of the rt's at rumny were bolted with the use of extension ladders as well as down aiding. the key thing is to make sure that the rt is going to be a good one 8)
i'm not sure, but i don't think the person who started this thread actually wanted to bolt an overhang, but just wanted to know how it was done... but thanks for the tutorial...
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philbox
Moderator
Jul 21, 2003, 9:11 PM
Post #14 of 15
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Hey roughster, I do have RB`s but I hesitate to use them as I don`t want the extra hole and the patch job that entails. I`m hearing ya though.
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 22, 2003, 12:13 AM
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sounds like the rb's would be a good way to put up 1/2 in. glue ins on lead. personaly though i feel pretty good about 3/8th stainless as long as the rock is good. I also kind of like doing hard aid, hooks, beaks etc over bolts :lol: It is pretty fun but you know you won't die 8) At trad areas I will run it out a bit more once I am past the second or third bolt.
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