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nailzz
May 31, 2003, 3:00 AM
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I know that a lot of people prefer the ascender/grigri system for jugging a rope, and I think it's the method I am going to use for my first aid setup.
Is there a general preference out there regarding which hand you like to have on the ascender? I will most likely be getting one of the Petzl Ascensions and want to know if there is one hand I should get over the other.
It seems logical that a right-handed person would want the ascender on the right hand, but I am not sure. Is there a general preference or does it come down to personal choice?
Thank you.
BTW, I am planning a Zion trip to Spaceshot as my first 'big wall' experience this summer. I know it'll be hot, we are planning on it being so. So this will likely be the first in a series of questions I encounter on the preparation road.
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epic_ed
May 31, 2003, 4:42 AM
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Buy both, carry both. I usually go with the gold (left hand), but if the route traverses continuously to the right, I'll throw on the blue ascender. There are also occasions where you may want a second ascender -- you can save that lesson for some of Pete's in-depth reading after you've completed a few pitches.
Have some fun, brah!
Ed
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jbur
May 31, 2003, 5:08 AM
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Go with up2top and buy both. I still use the yosemite method, with 2 ascenders and an aider on each. I also use a gri gri for my back-up, rather than knots. If I come to a situation where I feel it would be better to just use one jug and the gri gri I just drop my bottom ascender and go with it. After trying both ways I still feel that I can clean faster on most pitches with 2 ascenders. It's the best of both worlds.
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timpanogos
May 31, 2003, 5:30 AM
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Actually - PTPP's preferred method of pure ascending is a single Petzl ascension and the Petzl frog system (Croll with it's cool little over the head strap).
In this method you actually place your hands on top of the ascender and do not even use the handle - so left or right does not really matter so much - I found in many cases - grabbing the top of the ascender instead of the handle was best (when you pull the handle can pinch your fingers in the rope and rub/blister - plus you get a stronger longer better position grabbing the top of the ascender).
The GriGri is typically used with the ascender to clean the pitch - it is NOT the most efficient way to jug a free hanging line - two ascenders would be much better - for overhung free hanging jugs - nothing bets the frog system.
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nailzz
May 31, 2003, 7:15 PM
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From the sounds of it, I'm convinced to go ahead and get both ascenders. Ideally I would like to try out the frog system but this being my first wall I am already buying way too much stuff. So, I'm going to go as simple as possible and go with the classic method.
Thank you for all the comments.
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timpanogos
Jun 1, 2003, 1:07 AM
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Tony,
I believe the Croll (it's size of basic only sideways) was like 35 bucks with the neck torse running another 7 - so the whole frog system is cheaper than the 2nd Ascention.
Just a thought
Chad
P.S. you can borrow mine and give it a try if you please.
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apollodorus
Jun 9, 2003, 8:41 AM
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You'll want the second jug for moving up after long lower outs, when you can't reach back and unclip the piece to bring the Gri-Gri up. You could also use a prusik as the upper jug in that sort of situation.
Also, you should be able to work both jugs with either hand. I think the Petzls are awkward to use, compared to Jumars, but most people I've heard from prefer the Petzls. And don't forget to clip the bottom of the jug to the rope on a traverse, to keep the line of force along the long axis of the ascender.
The Yosemite jugging system of using two aiders is great for going up walls that are 75/80 degrees or less. Steeper than that, and you quickly degenerate into a BWT. I watched so many people Yosemite jug flail on the Salathe recently, it looked like some sort of Monty Python live theater. Particularly brutal to watch was this one guy going up a free-hanging line. He didn't even have the top jug short-daisied to his harness, so he could sit down and rest.
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copperhead
Jun 9, 2003, 5:36 PM
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How was Bermuda, Tom? How many bolts did you guys ADD?
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pbjosh
Jun 9, 2003, 5:48 PM
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I'd recommend using the ascender (or I prefer a tibloc for walls) in your lower hand and the gri-gri on the rope above it. Real men prussik, however.
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nailzz
Jun 13, 2003, 3:43 AM
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Chad,
Thanks for the offer and the idea of going with the Croll. Another reason I'd do the two ascender deal is that I've done it and feel reasonably comfortable with it.
However, I haven't pulled the trigger yet and ordered anything yet. So, I may yet take you up on the offer if I get the chance to try it out and find I like it better.
On the other hand, as the plan stands I will be leading all the aid pitches except (maybe) the last one. So, it may be a moot point altogether, although I'm sure it'd be wise for me to carry some form of ascension on me, just in case. I could go cheap and go with prussiks or something. I'm not really sure yet.
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timstich
Jun 13, 2003, 4:02 AM
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In reply to: Chad, Thanks for the offer and the idea of going with the Croll. Another reason I'd do the two ascender deal is that I've done it and feel reasonably comfortable with it. However, I haven't pulled the trigger yet and ordered anything yet. So, I may yet take you up on the offer if I get the chance to try it out and find I like it better. On the other hand, as the plan stands I will be leading all the aid pitches except (maybe) the last one. So, it may be a moot point altogether, although I'm sure it'd be wise for me to carry some form of ascension on me, just in case. I could go cheap and go with prussiks or something. I'm not really sure yet.
Just today I brought my caving ascending systems, a bungie rope walker and a Frog, to a limestone wall near the house. Then I tried to set up a Frog with a Yates Astroman harness. As you probably know, the climbing harness doesn't use a half-moon Mallion to close it like most caving harnesses. So I discarded the Croll and used a Petzl Basic ascender (the handleless one). This worked a lot better for the chest ascender, because it could be attached with one locker or quicklink and be oriented correctly. We used an adjustable chest harness that allowed comfy resting of the torso.
For the foot slings I just used my regular Frog footloops, but my friend substituted daisies and aiders. I got my rig to give me about 1.5 ft. per cycle and my friend got around 1 ft. That was without futzing too much with the foot loop lengths. All in all, it was fairly efficient. I'm not sure how you guys are attaching a Croll.
-Tim
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timstich
Jun 13, 2003, 4:06 AM
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In reply to: ...In this method you actually place your hands on top of the ascender and do not even use the handle - so left or right does not really matter so much ...
Yeah. The Jumar is the most comfortable for this hand postion I have found. I have the Petzl as well. You can really grasp the top of the Jumar well. Those little grooves/fins on top feel good.
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timpanogos
Jun 13, 2003, 6:44 AM
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timstich,
I have the Misty Mountain Cadilac harness - the waist band has a prononced loop in the waist band intended to feed a rope through for tie-off.
I place a locking binner in this loop - i.e. the locker is on the waist webbing, not your belay loop - which puts the binner 90 degrees in a different direction than your delay loops would.
The locker now clips right onto the bottom of the croll which sits nice and flat on over your naval.
I assume you are putting your locker on the delay loop, and hence the basic gives the right orientation for the binner in this case, but does not tuck flat out of the way like the croll does in this case.
Other advantage of this - you know how busy that (those) belay loops get while aiding - with the croll locker on the waist - it is out of the way. I often just leave the frog on - loosen the Torse, and am not bothered by the croll or it's locker with normal climbing/cleaning activity - and yet when/if you ever want need the double ascender - it is not only racked but only a pull of the torse adjustment and placement of rope away.
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