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deadpointman
Jun 1, 2003, 12:07 PM
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If you've tried it, you already know this. If not, try it and you will understand. It is by far the most effective type of training I have ever tried. :)
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katydid
Jun 2, 2003, 11:50 AM
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Care to expand on what it is? Thanks, k.
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neadamthal
Jun 2, 2003, 11:57 AM
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In reply to: If you've tried it, you already know this. If not, try it and you will understand. It is by far the most effective type of training I have ever tried. :) oh yeah, and this type of training is the bomb too! and have you ever been here? such a cool place... :twisted:
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texasclimber
Jun 2, 2003, 3:26 PM
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In reply to: Care to expand on what it is? Thanks, k. Yah! What the hell are you talking about? Interval training?
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collegekid
Jun 2, 2003, 4:22 PM
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i know what he's talking about...it IS the most effective training method i have ever used. It took me from climbing v0's to v5's in less than 3 months!
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texasclimber
Jun 2, 2003, 4:28 PM
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ok..haha...this thread is stupid.
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czarcastic
Jun 2, 2003, 4:38 PM
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I think I know of the training he is talking about...Basically you down 3 beers and 3 shots of expresso in one hour...for 20 minutes, it seems like you can climb anything!
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deadpointman
Jun 3, 2003, 2:07 AM
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Wait, wait :!: This is not a joke. Complex training a is real training method that works really well. I didn't explain what it is right off because I was curious to see how many (or rather, how few) climbers have heard of it. My suspicions were correct, it's an idea that has yet to catch on in the general climbing community. It will, though, as it is THE future of training, in my opinion. Complex training is doing a power/speed exercise immediately after finishing a pure strength exercise. This combination, in this order, has been shown to result in gains in maximum strength occuring much faster than they could by doing pure strength training or power training alone. An example of complex training in climbing would be doing an intense, sustained, fingery boulder problem, then hitting the campus board immediately afterward. Complex training is super intense and requires a lot of rest to recover from, but it's all worth it when you realize what it's doing for your strength! Ask me questions and I'll do my best to point you in the right direction.
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sidepull
Jun 3, 2003, 3:37 AM
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give us an example workout.
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deadpointman
Jun 3, 2003, 4:56 AM
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Sample Complex Finger Training Workout I'll also post a sample complex workout that targets the big pull muscles in the back and upper arms. Say you're at a rock gym. Locate a series of burly pinch moves that are all roughly equal in difficulty. The key here is that the pinches should suck (i.e. they're hard to hold on to)! They shouldn't be especially far apart, though. Run a couple laps on this series of moves until your pinch grip is worked to the point of failure. This should take a total of 10 to 20 hand movements. Then, within 30 seconds of finishing, find a series of reasonably far-apart, okay pinches. Climb up and down on these pinches, focusing on lunging dynamically between each hold. The dynamic catches you do while you're down climbing are especially beneficial because they stimulate the maximum number of muscle fibers. Shooting for 8-16 total hand movements before failure would be ideal here. Take a good rest, perhaps 5 minutes or so, then repeat. Next you should find some heinous crimpers. Follow the same procedure as with the pinches. The only difference is that if you happen to be a pretty strong climber already, hitting the campus board would be ideal in place of doing lunges between holds. Some sick slopers or pockets would be a good third choice. Follow the same routine as with the first two grips. Once again if you are already pretty strong, instead of lunging between slopers for the second exercise, do some campusing with and open-hand grip. After this, move on to working other grips. Two full sets for each grip seem to work well. I wouldn't recommend more than this because complex training is so intense. Make sure to work a variety of grips: pinch, crimp, and open hand are mandatory. To these, you might add wide pinches, half crimps, and various combinations of 1-to-3-finger pocket grips for a total of 6-8 grips.
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collegekid
Jun 3, 2003, 6:10 AM
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sounds like a good way to get hurt but... anyway, isn't that basically just doing a workout to failure? Haven't climbers been doing this same thing for years? It seems like it would be extremely difficult to get enough of the right sized holds the right distance apart, unless you had your own wall to do workouts on. Isn't that just a system board?
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johng
Jun 3, 2003, 7:11 AM
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Yes, this "complex training" is Remarkably similar to Eric horst's various workouts. www.trainingforclimbing.com and look at the HIT finger training theory. the 30 second rest and then second lunging set is something that i haven't seen before though
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styndall
Jun 3, 2003, 8:35 AM
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Training hard on crimps is a terrible idea. You train the same muscle group by working slopers, and that way you don't risk pulley injuries. Stay off the crimps when you don't need to hit em.
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overlord
Jun 3, 2003, 8:55 AM
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sounds good. i think ill try it.
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alpiner
Jun 3, 2003, 3:53 PM
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In reply to: This combination, in this order, has been shown to result in gains in maximum strength occuring much faster than they could by doing pure strength training or power training alone. Citations please. Where can this study be found? BTW how old are you? This does sound like a recipe for injury, unless you're a teenager.
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cloudbreak
Jun 3, 2003, 5:18 PM
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Something this complex takes the fun out of climbing, unless I'm being payed for it.
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deadpointman
Jun 4, 2003, 5:02 AM
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:o No, no, no, no, no. Most of you are missing the point. Someone asked for a sample complex training workout so I provided a sample workout. By no means is this the only way you can do complex training! There are infinite variations to a complex training workout. Complex training is not just climbing to failure, although climbing to failure is a key aspect of it and of strength training in general. Eric Horst is an excellent author of books on the subject of training for climbing. Buy his books, they rule (especially Training for Climbing). However, you can do every single one of the exercises Eric Horst recommends and still not be doing complex training. In the words of Mr. Horst: "Complex Training involves coupling a high-intensity, low-speed exercise with a moderate-intensity, moderate-speed exercise . . . Research has shown that performing these very different exercises back to back (and in the order of strength first, power second) produces gains in strength and power beyond that achieved by performing either exercise alone" (Training for Climbing, P. 67). :idea: Buy or borrow a copy of TFC. The website http://www.trainingforclimbing.com is a good starting place, but the book is much more in depth. I think anyone with true interest in improving their climbing will thoroughly enjoy the book. It addresses complex training (the only climbing book that I know of to do this) and has tons of info on every espect of training for climbing (mental, physical and technical).
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enitine
Jun 4, 2003, 3:54 PM
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Sounds like a bunch of newbie information.... :shock: STFU Noob!... 8)
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colin
Jun 4, 2003, 7:25 PM
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coming from the person with 32 posts.... complex training is definatly a useful tool, but is not for everyone. if you're someone who is prone to injury or has poor recovery time you should avoid it and opt for consitently spaced workouts. It shouldn't be used for long periods of time without supplementing with basic all around training.
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xanx
Jun 4, 2003, 7:56 PM
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i spent a couple of months doing a great hangboard workout. i got stronger. i felt lighter. my lockoff strength got much better. but ya know what? it was boring. very boring. so i stopped. i think you can probably get just as good if you just climb at your limit consistently - work stuff that is above your level and really push yourself. training is boring. the best climbers i know don't train. I'm sure you have to train for something like Actione Directe (with the dyno to the mono, where you need to really strengthen your tendons or they WILL pop), but i dunno if it is worth it. this does sound like a good way to get hurt. the crimps will pop tendons or give you stress fractures in your fingers, and the monos.... well, i avoid monos at all costs.... i think if you are willing to go to such extreme lengths to train (this sounds like a rather "complex" and devoting workout...), you are probably climbing for the wrong reasons...
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colin
Jun 4, 2003, 8:09 PM
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In reply to: i think if you are willing to go to such extreme lengths to train (this sounds like a rather "complex" and devoting workout...), you are probably climbing for the wrong reasons... there are no wrong reasons.
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neadamthal
Jun 4, 2003, 8:30 PM
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In reply to: coming from the person with 32 posts.... yeah! cause # of posts == climbing experience. didn't you know that?! that's why i post. to not be a noob anymore! wow.... the sar c a s m... its just dripping today...
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colin
Jun 4, 2003, 9:28 PM
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being a n00b on a forum has nothing to do with climbing experience. fuckin ignorant n00b.
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muncher
Jun 4, 2003, 10:20 PM
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Why are so many people scared to train on small holds? Is it because they have not yet heard of the idea of warming up or slowly increasing the level of difficulty/smallness of holds etc? It is much better to train on these small holds in a controlled environment where you can slowly build up your strength than to be on a route outside and suddenly be faced with a dyno off some tiny crimp. If you go about it correctly it is quite possible to train hard using small holds and yes crimping as well, it just takes a little more thought and preparation than just jumping on your wall and pulling on big slopers.
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