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climbersam
Jun 3, 2003, 1:20 PM
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I saw a product at gearexpress (not an endorsement for them) called hand jammies, which is a rubber glove that protects only the back of your hands. A substitute for taping up while crck climbing. What do you think about these, good or bad?
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corpse
Jun 3, 2003, 1:40 PM
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I can't say I used though, but I tried some of those gloves before - and they are thicker and bulkier, but more comfy. Tape gloves may not have the padding, but you didn't get into climbing because it was luxurious like indoor miniature golf ;-) OTH - I suppose a rubber backing with yield you more friction than tape gloves - I've only once used those rubbered gloves in joshua tree, which doesn't need extra friction - I like the feel/performance of taped gloves there over the jammies. I haven't climbing on anything slick yet outside, so I can't say how they work there.
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duskerhu
Jun 3, 2003, 2:43 PM
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The "Hand Jammies" are made of leather with a wide swath of neoprene/rubber on the outside and a canvas lining on the inside. The have small loops of elastic you slip your fingers and thumb into and then velcro around the wrist.
I don't own a pair and I've decided that I will never purchase a pair. Here's why... A friend of mine has a pair (pelliott) and I've used his a few times (that is where I have the experience with them). They did seem to work fine and in fact can be very stable for hand jams if you size them correctly. I didn't like them for a couple of reasons. 1, They do add quite a bit of thickness to your hands; considerably more than a tape glove does. 2, There were times I was using them where I went to put my hand in the crack, and they actually caught on the rock as I was trying to put my hand in. That may be because they were thicker than I was used to and might have been along the same lines as "sloppy footwork" is. 3, They get incredibly "soggy" with sweat the more you use them in a day. Which didn't really affect performance per sae, but was kinda nasty to think about. Even worse than sweaty feet will get shoes! :shock: edit: 4. I also found it tough to get my hand into my chalk bag while wearing them. I don't really have a problem with this wearing regular tape gloves. un-edit
My opinion is that I'll save my money (like $36 or $40 I believe). I prefer tape. I have a pair of tape glove that I keep repairing and they do the same job (better for me). For that same $40, I can get about 25 or so rolls of tape, which I'll have to buy anyway.
That's not to say that the Hand Jammies don't work. They do and I'm sure you'll get a few people here who have them and swear by them. I do have one friend that has a pair; he thought they were too thick so he removed the canvas liner part. I don't know how much it did for him, but he said they were a little better after that.
Anyway, that's my 2 bucks worth...
duskerhu
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corpse
Jun 3, 2003, 3:18 PM
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hey, there's an idea - just get a little patch of thin rubber, and glue to your tape glove.. kinda cheap, but I suppose it would work..
This kinda reminds me of an article I read.. http://msnbc.com/news/921016.asp
Just when does it become aid climbing? :-) Chalk? rubber coated gloves? "glue" on your hands?
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epic_ed
Jun 3, 2003, 3:43 PM
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It's cheatin'! Pure cheatin'. At least until I own a pair.
I've used a buddies and they work very nice in the appropriately sized crack. Thier bulk limits where you can cram your hand in for a jam and it takes a while to realize you can't just jab your paw into cracks the same size you normally could. This makes them useless for thin hand cracks, and will leave you trying to do finger locks. But in the right sized crack? Dear God -- it's effortless jamming. Especially on the coarse granite of some place like JTree. Let that granite chew on those rubber gloves instead of the back of my hands.
Ed
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atg200
Jun 3, 2003, 3:47 PM
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LAME
they make your hands too big anyway, unless you are climbing big hands or rattly fist.
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calamity_chk
Jun 3, 2003, 3:52 PM
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my advice is to sack up. i'm a 5' tall, 100# chick and i dont even bother with tape (unless i'm on sandstone).
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atg200
Jun 3, 2003, 3:55 PM
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you can get away without tape because you are so light there is no pressure on your jams. us 200 pounders need the protection, but rubber on the hands is aid and changing your hand size that drastically is also aid.
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climbincajun
Jun 3, 2003, 5:32 PM
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In reply to: but rubber on the hands is aid and changing your hand size that drastically is also aid.
really? is that what you think? then that means than sticky rubber shoes are aid also, doesn't it? after all, whats the difference?
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robbo
Jun 3, 2003, 5:39 PM
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You can't say that it makes your hands too big to fit into cracks. It all depends on the size of the crack. If the crack is large then the rubber may make your hand just the right size.
And again it isn't any diff than wearing sticky rubber climbing shoes. I read that at Rifle they even put sticky rubber on knee pads, etc. for some of the harder routes.
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atg200
Jun 3, 2003, 5:42 PM
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in my opinion, rubber on the hands is aid. i don't really care what you do since it doesn't affect my experience at all, but i think it is lame. i do think that drastically changing your hand size to make the rattly fist crack into a regular fist crack is cheating - my tape gloves are one thin layer which really don't change my hand size at all. and hand jammies do make your hands way too big for some cracks - with my already relatively large and fat hands, incredible hand crack at the creek would turn into the incredible thin hands/rattly fingers crack and that would be no fun at all.
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sonso45
Jun 3, 2003, 6:30 PM
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I tape and own Jammies. Climbing has a long history of "cheating" by wearing taped leather gloves to do Paisano Overhang; wearing levi's pants and jackets while doing Lucille in Vedawou; jamming your helmet into a squeeze. I like Jammies for the right climb and especially cause you can take them off when not needed. M
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cracklover
Jun 3, 2003, 6:36 PM
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I thought about buying a pair before my first trip to J-tree. For those who don't know, Joshua Tree National Park in the desert southwest of the US is notorious for the sharp, painful, flaring, crystaline granite cracks. I even went so far as to try on a pair at the gear shop in J-tree. I decided to hold off and try making tape gloves. I never even considered going back to buy the hand jammies after that. Tape gloves worked great, though it took me a couple tries before I got a pair which I could just slip off at the end of the day and then slip on at the beginning of the next.
By the way, you'll run into some hardcore folks who say that even using tape is cheating (or aid). Invariably, he/she either:
1 - Has impeccable jamming technique, and skin like leather.
2 - Weighs ~ 80 pounds soaking wet.
3 - Has no idea since he/she's never felt the inside of of a truly evil jam-crack.
4 - Is lying, and always tapes up when the jams get hard. This dude(ette) has a masochistic streak, and wants to see just how much pain and suffering you can take!
GO
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billcoe_
Jun 3, 2003, 7:54 PM
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Climber chk: "SACK UP?"
Thats funny, you sure you're a female?
BTW: Cracklover and sonso45 already answered this for everybody, thanks guys.'Nuff said.
Bill
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tradklime
Jun 4, 2003, 4:30 PM
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My opinion, they are no more cheating than tape gloves. Compared to tape gloves they have their advantages and disadvantages, most of which has been already stated. Best thing about them is convenience.
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hangerlessbolt
Jun 4, 2003, 5:20 PM
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Have both…use both.
Prefer taped when doing all-day cracks…
Throw on the jammies for a route or two of crack.
Easy on, easy off…no waste of tape.
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nickb
Jun 4, 2003, 5:51 PM
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Hey hand jammers. A couple of quick questions if I may. Is the size small, small enough for a person with really small hands? She usually wears an XS glove like the Metolius XS. And second do they have these in the Valley to try on?
Thanks.
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jughead
Jun 4, 2003, 7:08 PM
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THEY BELONG DOWN ON THE GROUND WITH KNEE AND ELBOW PADS :twisted:
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calamity_chk
Jun 4, 2003, 8:26 PM
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In reply to: Climber chk: "SACK UP?" Thats funny, you sure you're a female? BTW: Cracklover and sonso45 already answered this for everybody, thanks guys.'Nuff said. Bill
yeeeahh, i'm not always exactly, um, "girlie"
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geokite
Jun 4, 2003, 8:45 PM
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I have a pair. I find that they constrict the fingers too much; they have elastic that wraps around the base of the fingers, and it really hurts after a while. Cuts the blood flow off to the fingers.
Yes, I sized them at the Nomad shop I got them at. The pair I got was the best fitting ones.
Steve
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grigriese
Jun 4, 2003, 9:31 PM
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I prefer tape or nothing, unless it's a route that is steep and in Joshua Tree. The stitching on the jammies give me a rash on my wrists. I don't own a pair, I've always been told "heh, just use mine" by someone else. Half the time I would take 'em off and throw them down.
To each their own.
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dingus
Jun 4, 2003, 9:36 PM
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In reply to: in my opinion, rubber on the hands is aid.
Then so is rubber on the feet. So are sunglasses and ibuprophen. Underwear is aid. Anything you add to the naked body is unarguably aid in one fashion or another. So the fact that hand jammies might be construed as aid is quite irrelevant. OF COURSE THEY'RE AID!
In reply to: i don't really care what you do since it doesn't affect my experience at all, but i think it is lame.
OK. Mark one vote in the "lame" column. Yawn.
In reply to: i do think that drastically changing your hand size to make the rattly fist crack into a regular fist crack is cheating - my tape gloves are one thin layer which really don't change my hand size at all.
Now this is funny... you're complaining about other's using aid and admitting your own in the same sentence. Hilarious. Tape is just as much aid as hand jammies... more so in fact, since a proper tape job performs better.
In reply to: and hand jammies do make your hands way too big for some cracks - with my already relatively large and fat hands, incredible hand crack at the creek would turn into the incredible thin hands/rattly fingers crack and that would be no fun at all.
That would make them what, unaid? Disaid?
I've used the full gamut, from no hand protection to jammies. Here's my take:
1. I prefer no protection whenever I can get away with it.
2. I wear hand protection not out of fear of pain or blood. I do so for aesthetic reasons... too many times I've been in client situations where the backs of my hands became a conversation topic. Scabbie!
3. If I'm about to tackle that 10 pitch crack system that will push me to my limits, I'd opt for tape over gloves big time. The more performance is an issue, the more I'd lean toward tape aid.
4. Jammies come into their own for things like back country wall first ascents, where you may need them for part of a pitch today, 2 more pitches tomorrow, nothing the day after that and all day on the BIG PUSH, but that's it. You can slap em on and off very quickly. As opposed to the 30 minute tape/retape job every morning.
The performance issues others have noted are very real. They're bulky, insensitive and they catch on things. I've had cause to be thankful for them and I have also cursed them and thrown them to the ground.
I got mine for 25 bucks at Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley. At that price they're worth it for some specific instances when I need them. I view them as a beginner tool with one or two advanced applications.
DMT
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atg200
Jun 4, 2003, 10:12 PM
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yay, i've been flamed by dingus.
i believe there is a sliding scale for these sorts of things. chalk or tape on the hands i can accept, but building some sort of glove system with a hook for hanging on small edges is bad. hand jammies come somewhere in the middle of that for me(and this is only my opinion, which is what the dude was soliciting in the first place).
and yes, i think hand jammies are lousy aid - like aiding with a rack of camlocks, or aiding a 5.4 chimney with a rack of 2x4s. tape is way better and doesn't alter your hand size. the tape gloves i make i can put on and off easily many times, so the convenience factor is not important to me.
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dingus
Jun 4, 2003, 11:24 PM
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In reply to: yay, i've been flamed by dingus.
You call that a flame??? And here I thought I was treating you with kids gloves, internet hand jammies as it were.
Anyway, couldn't flame you if I wanted. My input isn't censored, but my output sure is!
Moderators are aid too. (I like hand jammies better)
DMT
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