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climbordie
Jun 5, 2003, 9:04 PM
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Hey Guys
I was wondering if anybody has heard about this supposed V15 in japn that is a slab route!? I think it is complete BS From what I've heard.
Thanks
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deleted
Deleted
Jun 5, 2003, 9:11 PM
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Well... I think it's always suspicious to hear about new, ultrahard bolders opened in faraway places when they aren't opened by Fred...
I think that this route, like many hard problems, needs to see another ascent or two before the grade can be confirmed or not.
Think of the "worlds first 5.15"... and no, it's not Realization.
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vertical_planar
Jun 5, 2003, 9:21 PM
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[quote="locks"]Well... I think it's always suspicious to hear about new, ultrahard bolders opened in faraway places when they aren't opened by Fred...In reply to: Would you define "faraway places" please? You know, not all non-US climbers get the sponshorships and the attention that US climbers usulally "enjoy". If you dont know them, this does not means that they don exist or climb super hard. This V15 might be bullshit, but i dont know why you should be more suspicious about it if it is not in the US...
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palo
Jun 5, 2003, 9:32 PM
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Report from 8a.nu dated 11/2/02:
"Kevin Wilson has been kind enough to check the Japanese 8C report for us: The problem, Banshousha, was opened by Tokio Muroi on 9th December last year. The problem checks in at 8C and is a SLAB, yes, your eyes are not deceiving you. The problem was climbed with no pad and could almost be considered a highball. It can be found on a boulder called the Ogawayama Crystal Slab. Sick! The name Banshousha means "The Accompanist", which is someone who plays or sings the accompaniement, accompanying a violin or piano for example."
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deleted
Deleted
Jun 5, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Hey... faraway can be in the US, too.
When one hears news of a new ultrahard climb, you immediately think "I knew people in (Georgia, India, Japan) were strong, but v15... really ?!?!?"
And unless it's a Fred Nicole or Bernd Zangrl or Dave Graham, you DO question the 8c grade...
There is nothing wrong with this and I am sure Muroi-san is an excellent bolderer.
But a rumor and a news snippet isn't a repeat and grade confirmation by a well known climber.
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climbordie
Jun 5, 2003, 11:56 PM
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I don' think anyone has ever heard of the guy who climbed it, but thats not the part that disturbs me. The fact that its a slab is what screams that its over-rated. I mean, I've never heard of any V14 slabs and such, so what is he using as a standard for the grade? It seems like there should be point on slabs where there just isn't enough friction to hold on.
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koto
Jun 6, 2003, 1:05 AM
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In reply to: Hey... faraway can be in the US, too. When one hears news of a new ultrahard climb, you immediately think "I knew people in (Georgia, India, Japan) were strong, but v15... really ?!?!?" And unless it's a Fred Nicole or Bernd Zangrl or Dave Graham, you DO question the 8c grade... There is nothing wrong with this and I am sure Muroi-san is an excellent bolderer. But a rumor and a news snippet isn't a repeat and grade confirmation by a well known climber.
Hey man, have you heard of Sharik Walker or James Scarborough? Theyre Australian boys who boulder v14 etc but you have probably never heard of them right?
Just because you don't know about someone in the US or that they aren't well known in general, doesn't mean that person isn't a sensational climber.
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xanx
Jun 6, 2003, 1:06 AM
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"Bohemian Rhapsody" is a v13 slab. And Deul is a v11 slab. blank slabs can be rather difficult... imagine a dyno on deul!!
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flyinghatchet
Jun 6, 2003, 11:11 PM
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Don't you idiots get what locks is trying to say? He is not saying there are no great climbers he doesn't know about, he's saying he won't really know how hard this problem is until a reputable climber he knows of repeats it. I have not read a sentence by locks in this thread that says "If I haven't heard of this climber, they're not good." or anything related to that. If I told you I just FA'd a project that was V4+ somewhere you don't know too well (or haven't even heard of), you would probably think twice about it, eh? Why? One, you've never frickin heard of me before, and two, you don't know of the rock in the area. Think twice before posting something stupid, morons.
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raingod
Jun 7, 2003, 12:02 AM
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In reply to: It seems like there should be point on slabs where there just isn't enough friction to hold on. |
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corpse
Jun 7, 2003, 12:24 AM
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hatchet - you CAN get state an opinion of come to a conclusion without sounding like an immature THIRTEEN year old; if you are an immature 13 yr old, then go beat up kids on the playground and stay away from climbing :-)
BTW - where's flyinghatchet come from?? Is that a Juggalo reference? (If you don't know what I mean, then nevermind)
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hasbeen
Jun 7, 2003, 12:41 AM
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Obviously, none of you are aware of the Asian dominance in climbing. I have so many stories of Asian guys nobody's ever heard of smoking big guns I can barely remember all of them.
The strongest climber I've ever heard of is a guy named Ingar Shu (Chinese, but still). He still climbs, sometimes, and never really got into it, mainly (he says) because it just was never all that challenging. His first time tying into a rope, he onsighted 12c. On his first (and only road trip) he onsighted every route in the Gallery except one. On that one, the last, he calmly told his belayer to take. He was near the top and in no difficulty. When his belayer asked why, he stated he thought he was injured. Upon further examination the belayer (Jimmy Thornburg) finally figured out he had started to get pumped and didn't know what the feeling was. But the best part of this story is that while he was gone, the strongest guys at City Rock set the 13 hardest problems they could, just to try and make Ingar fall off. However, he on sighted every one.
One time at City Rock (back when there were only a couple of gyms in the country), Christian Griffith and Todd Skinner followed him around one day and could not repeat a single problem he did--not one. Once, at Phil Requist's famous cave in Moraga, he was bouldering around onsight when he made a sound on a move. Scott Frye's eyes went wide, becaue Ingar never seemed to work on anything. No one ever repeated this move. Some guys, who aren't so weak (Hans Florine, Requist, Frye, and others) worked on it for over a year. He did it on sight!
Okay, so these guys weren't too strong by today's standards. Well, Mission Cliffs had a grip strength test a few years back and tested pretty much every well known climber that came through the Bay Area over a long period. The Results: Chris Sharma's grip strength test was 15% higher than anyone elses, which was pretty astounding. Except for one person, Ingar, who bested Sharma by another 15%!
You think someone you've never heard of can't do a boulder problem that's harder than anything that has been done? You are sorely mistaken. Now, a route would be a bit different since more goes into it, but a boulder problem that's off the charts is totally possible.
And if the person has an Asian name, you'd do well not to discount them.
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flyinghatchet
Jun 7, 2003, 12:47 AM
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Corpse
What have you got against me, honestly? When I post I think it about what I'm writing and write it so it doesn't sound stupid and immature. I don't think the way I write is immature, and I think if you had not seen my profile, you would not have posted anything about my age and immaturity. Please tell me why you think I'm immature, and I will try and post more maturely in the futre. And flyinghatchet is not a juggalo reference, I don't know what you're talking about so it must be before my time.....
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jipstyle
Jun 7, 2003, 12:57 AM
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In reply to: Obviously, none of you are aware of the Asian dominance in climbing.
If we aren't aware of it, does it exist? Perhaps I am being nitpicky ... but 'dominance' implies that they are on top of the field. Yuji Hirayama is the only asian climber I've heard of ... and while he is certainly one of the best in the world, his accomplishments do not amount to 'dominance' for asians ... just for Hirayama-sama.
In reply to: And if the person has an Asian name, you'd do well not to discount them.
I prefer discounting everyone until I have seen them climb or have heard of their accomplishments from a reputable, verifiable source ... regardless of their race. If I assume anything about a person because of their name, I am clearly falling victim to the most ignorant fallacy... racism.
As for Ingar Shu ... the only person by that name that I've ever heard of is a video game programmer. I'm not saying he doesn't exist ... I'm saying that this is the first I've heard of him, and that your story, while interesting, is ... well, irrelevant.
The boulder problem in question will receive a consensus grade when several climbers who are known to have climbed V14+ agree is it V15 (or whatever). In the meantime, it is harder than I can climb (right now).
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dlintz
Jun 7, 2003, 12:58 AM
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corpse wrote:
In reply to: hatchet - you CAN get state an opinion of come to a conclusion without sounding like an immature THIRTEEN year old
Corpse, read that sentence out loud. :roll:
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corpse
Jun 7, 2003, 1:01 AM
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hatchet - got nothin against you, the couple posts I *noticed* today seemed to be immature - and yes, that is a premature opinion for me to draw... I think it's miller time, been a long day :) The juggalo thing is about a certain rap group - their logo is the hatchet man, and a flying hatchet is something you wanna stay away from, or your head might get chopped off. ( Yes, I'm corpse, I'm 29 and a love rap music and thrash metal - good thing I don't let me kids listen to my music!)
Back to the v15 slab... I wanna see pics! I can picture these insanely hard routes with tiny little nubbins that you gotta squeeze with your teeth, but I can't image a SLAB like this.. Then again, the hardest slab I've climbing (not bouldered) was a 5.8.. I wanted to try something harded as I didn't fall :-( I like to find where my limit is. Too bad it's not v15!
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corpse
Jun 7, 2003, 1:22 AM
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In reply to: corpse wrote: In reply to: hatchet - you CAN get state an opinion of come to a conclusion without sounding like an immature THIRTEEN year old Corpse, read that sentence out loud. :roll:
Ya know, after reading that sentence, out loud, to myself, writing it on paper, I CAN NOT think of what the intended sequence of words are.. Maybe it's a word game - see if you can figure it out :-)
hmm - "...you can state an opinion or come to a conclusion..." maybe this is what I was after.. ok, my english has improved a LITTLE.
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socalbolter
Jun 7, 2003, 1:46 AM
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i've heard about the problem and read many, many posts on the web about it. unfortunately most of the posts express doubt as to the rating. what is it about the human mind that causes the first thought process to be disbelief?
if any of us took the time to look back over the colored history of our sport he/she would find several instances where huge leaps in diffculty have been made. often times these have been made by relative unknowns (or at least they were unknown at the time that their first leap became common knowledge the world over).
often times an increased rating comes from the person not really knowing what to rate the climb if it's more difficult than what they have previously had experience with. the following years (and hopefully ascents) usually help to develop a consensus and many times the rating goes down to its proper level. often times though, it also remains or even increases.
time will tell with this one, as with all other V14-15 problems and 5.14+ to 5.15 routes. our sport is, as always, on the cusp of an expanded grade in difficulty. because of this we hear of new 5.15's and V14-15 problems everywhere. regardless of whether or not the grade sticks or drops - the climb is difficult and worthy of our respect. in this case is the slab any less
amazing if it ends up being V14? V13? V12? V11? V10? a double digit rating on a slab problem seems stiff to me no matter where the rating ends up.
my hat's off to the climber who did it. congratulations!
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adampaiva
Jun 7, 2003, 2:42 AM
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I love how this changed from wheteher or not the route is V15 or not to "asians can climb too!"
-adam
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dlintz
Jun 7, 2003, 3:07 AM
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corpse wrote:
In reply to: Ya know, after reading that sentence, out loud, to myself, writing it on paper, I CAN NOT think of what the intended sequence of words are.. Maybe it's a word game - see if you can figure it out
A few beers might help the interpretation process along.....that's better, cheers. 8)
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lostinvegas
Jun 7, 2003, 5:22 AM
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Tokio Muroi is well known and respected boulderer in Japan. He is one of those who's been pushing the limits along with Dai Koyamada(who's relatively known outside Japan after Yuji) and the like, and a specialist on granite problems. Photo of him on the problem "Bansousha" can be seen on http://www.bouldering.net/japan/closeup/5dan/5dan.html
It's a slopy arete, lay-back, toe-hook, high step to a mantle on micro dents and crystals that took him 4 years to complete, according to his comment on the same page. He admits to the difficulty of grading at the highest level, and that will only be solved by time. Given the non-spraying nature of most of top Japanese climbers including Tokio and notorious sand-bagging grades in many of the areas there, 5-dan(V14/15) may be modest by US standards.
By the way, did anybody know that Yuji recently completed his lont time project in Japan rated possibly 14d/15a? Making it probably the hardest climb in Japan surpassing couple 14d's by Dai.
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legless
Jun 9, 2003, 9:38 PM
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okay, i am extremely pissed off because i was just about finished with a lengthy informed reply to this thread and then my landlord walked in and my computer reset...so i have to start over...here we go:
i can talk about this sensibly because A. i lived in japan for two years B. Muroi Tokio (the climber in question) is an acquaintance of mine and climbs (and works) at the same tiny gym in funabashi that ive been training at. C. ive seen the problem in ogawayama though never touched it.
tokio is a quiet guy who you wouldnt think on appearance is an exceptional climber until you see him on rock. in Japan, absolutely every japanese climber knows who he is and his v15 problem---not to mention he also wrote the topos for mitake and mitsumine (the latter being the one that boone and obe went to in that video). his style is extremely technical and his balance and flexibility are unlike anything ive seen before. ive hung out and climbed with some high end, v11 and up climbers and I can say he is definitely at the high end of the scale.
as for the grade of this particular problem, I definitely cannot say anything as I havent tried it and of course it happens to be totally out of my v6 universe. but, i will say what i know...according to my japanese friends at our gym the problem's crux moves require superhuman upperbody flexibility to the tune of double jointedness in the shoulder. actually, they also told me, that the problem requires a type of climbing that western climbers simply dont do. (by that they probably just meant that the problem demands phenomenal strengths other than raw power). Japans best, most wickedly strong climbers have been trying to repeat this problem for a while now with no success.
i told tokio and some of the other climbers in that scene that before i came to japan i had never heard of him or his v15 send and that nobody international knows him at all...i also told him that he almost has a responsibility to get the big names to come out and try (for instance graham came last spring and they climbed together but in mitake (not ogawayama)). I would imagine getting the biggest names to come out is not easy, especially because of the huge language gap---and with no buzz about the problem outside japan, top internationals are not coming in on their own.
the bottom line is this: the problem is there, it hasnt been repeated and given his top-notch standing in japans climbing community, his problem deserves to be taken seriously by the worlds top boulderers. the problem is BEGGING to be tried, climbed, repeated, confirmed or downgraded. To claim a problem is one of the hardest in the world takes balls, but tokio is good enough to realistically make that claim. and if you repeat it, no matter if you downgrade it or whatever, youd be an instant climbing star in japan (read: top shelf sashimi forever).
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antagonism
Jun 9, 2003, 9:47 PM
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Corpse - I can probably name 10 thirteen year old climbers that can climb harder than you. 13 year olds aren't the only immature people in the world you know.
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drkodos
Jun 9, 2003, 9:47 PM
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Hopefully, Lox or NICEPORCH will soon have their pics up for us to see them sending this route. :shock:
:roll:
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curt
Jun 9, 2003, 10:39 PM
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legless,
Do you know if there are any pictures of this floating around? If so, could you possibly post one?
Curt
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