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dantheman31
Jun 13, 2003, 4:31 PM
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Any info on Nutcracker on the Manure Pile will help. Gear, beta, opinion, its all good.
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artm
Jun 13, 2003, 4:45 PM
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The Nutcracker Sweet was FA'd by Royal Robbins with only Nuts.
You can get by with a standard rack up to 3".
The 5.9 finger variation is fun and highly recommended.
All belays are gear.
The Mantle move is notorious as an ankle breaker
go to supertopo for the best beta
http://supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=yomanutc
edited to add link
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dantheman31
Jun 13, 2003, 5:23 PM
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Thanks
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desertgranite
Jun 13, 2003, 5:27 PM
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I have a guide book that says bring a double set of nuts.
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ricardol
Jun 13, 2003, 5:27 PM
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i've done this route 3x this season already ... here is my rack ..
1 set of nuts
cams up to #3 camalot with doubles in .75, 1, 2
tricams .5 to 2.5
if you choose the left side start (5.6, with the 5.8 flake traverse) then you could use a 3.5 camalot at the start, but you never use it again.
dont fall on the mantle.
-- also about the flake traverse .. you can get a medium tricam pretty deep at the start of the traverse ... then a small nut in a crack in the middle of the flake (sounds VERY hollow, dont fall) .. and i also get a .5 camalot under the flake at the end of the flake ... all this pro is crappy, but its about all there is .. dont fall on the traverse
-- ricardo
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dsafanda
Jun 13, 2003, 5:36 PM
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I've done that climb 4 or 5 times. Someday I really want to do it in the fashion that RR did with only nuts. However, I've always used as a standard free climbing rack that includes cams .5-3".
I think that the 5.9 start is actually a bit easier than the middle 5.8 start.
I'd recommend the new SuperTopo FreeClimbing guidebook for more detailed beta. There is an ad banner for the book running on this very site.
Don't worry about the mantle. It's not that bad. I think you'll find a couple other spots that are more challenging. Have fun.
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brianinslc
Jun 13, 2003, 5:59 PM
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Fun route. I got psyched up for the mantle move but it went quickly and easier than I'd thought. So, no big.
"Standard rack".
Mouse King variation is a good start. Fun!
Good luck (with the crowds, we waited for 2 hours at the huge ledge for the herd to clear up. And still, some a-hole tried to climb right thru us...).
Brian in SLC
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davidji
Jun 13, 2003, 5:59 PM
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In reply to: I've done that climb 4 or 5 times. Someday I really want to do it in the fashion that RR did with only nuts.
Roper's Yosemite guide says that subsequent nailing made the nut placements much harder.
In reply to: I think that the 5.9 start is actually a bit easier than the middle 5.8 start. |
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dsafanda
Jun 13, 2003, 6:07 PM
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In reply to: Is that the regular 5.8 start? It's been a few years since I've climbed that but I don't recall it being hard.
I'm not sure if that's the regular start or not. I think the 5.8 corner that I'm talking about is right of the regular start. SuperTopo shows three starts. I was refering to the middle one. Let's face it, nothing on this climb can be described as hard but in my opinion that bit of 5.8 lie backing is probably a bit tougher than the polished 5.9 moves on the other start. Just an opinion. I've spoken to others who feel the same way but obviously Chris Mac doesn't agree with me or he would have graded it differently. No big deal either way...it's fun no matter how you do it.
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dantheman31
Jun 13, 2003, 9:04 PM
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Thank you to all who have replied. The info will def help.
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kevlar
Jun 13, 2003, 9:10 PM
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I always take both sets of nuts
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iamthewallress
Jun 13, 2003, 9:12 PM
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In reply to: [Let's face it, nothing on this climb can be described as hard
I guess that depends whether or not you lead Valley 5.10 (as you do) or you are asking for beta on a 5.8 on an internet forum. A lot of injuries happen there every year.
I think that the first move of the 5.9 start is very slick and you only get one piece of pro from a pretty good height to protect it. If you are solid at slick finger cracks though, it's the better start, IMO.
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ricardol
Jun 13, 2003, 9:15 PM
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i agree with everyone on this therad ..
the mantle move is not the toughest move on the climb -- and is actually pretty easy once you figure out where your feet need to go .. but its probably the only move on the climb that has pretty serious consequences if you blow it ..
.. the bulge on p4 is probably the toughest move onthe climb (or the 5.9 start) ..
.. i found the 5.9 start to be very slippery .. i've never done the 5.8 start .. opting for hte 5.6 layback with the 5.8 flake traverse ..
.. if you do the flake traverse .. either use long runners towards the top of the layback .. or belay at the top of the layback and then traverse .. otherwise you'll get pretty bad rope drag..
you might be able tot avoid the crowds ifyou start after 1 pm ..
-- ricardo
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iamthewallress
Jun 13, 2003, 9:21 PM
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In reply to: you might be able tot avoid the crowds ifyou start after 1 pm ..
...but you might prefer to show up at 7 am and avoid the greasy rock that gets so hot, you'll be loathe to touch it. :wink:
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dsafanda
Jun 13, 2003, 9:22 PM
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Yes...of coarse you're right Melissa. I didn't mean to shrug off the dificulties. I just didn't want to get in to debate about what's the hardest move on Nutcracker. I think that even your modest self will admit that this a moderate and very fun climb and that it would be silly to get too wrapped up in what the hardest move is. Like anything else in climbing it depends on what your strengths are.
Now I have to come clean. I took my wife up this last weekend and made a major gumby move on the last pitch. I stuck a couple cams in that horizotal crack that you come to before moving left and up for the mantle. I then climbed through the mantle and over right before placing my next piece. I guess my brain was just thinking about getting a drink of water. This route gets hot!! When I got her on belay she couldn't get the rope flipped over to the left corner where the mantle is. A soloist passing by took out a piece for me and we were able to finsih up but it was really stupid of me. Do yourself a favor and don't do what I did. Place a directional before or just after the mantle move.
If Nutcracker is too crowded move left and check out CS Concerto which starts a hundred feet or so left of Nutcracker. It's not quite as good but it's still fun.
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artm
Jun 13, 2003, 9:48 PM
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I agree with Melissa and keep in mind that Valley grades don't feel "on" until you've gotten used to polished granite.
At least for me anyway, I lead J-tree .10's but get spanked on Valley .9s at least so far......here's hoping plenty of time spent at Idyllwyld preps me for 9 days in the Big Ditch.
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flamer
Jun 14, 2003, 7:04 PM
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Last year my buddy and I were looking for something to do for a rest day, we had done the south face of the colmun the day before. I had never climbed Nutcracker and, having just read Ropers Camp4 book, wanted to do it in the original style...All nuts. So we took 2 sets of nuts and 3 big Hex's, and nothing else. We showed up to find the crowds this route is so famous for, and didn't care this was supposed to be a leisurly climb and waiting at belays wasn't a concern. We used the original start - the layback and flake traverse.
My partner and I were having abit of fun with each other...I was calling him Liz and told him I got to be Royal. When he balked I sited the tested "I called it" rule and he conceded that, yes I had "called it".
The 3 parties we ran into at the huge ledge a couple of pitchs up tought this was pretty funny, and we all enjoyed sitting in the sun and meeting new people.
This was a a very fun outing a would I would encourage everyone to try the route using only nut's, Just remember To "call" the Royal name first!! :wink:
josh
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hasbeen
Jun 14, 2003, 7:42 PM
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If you really want to be like RoyL, I suggest you ditch your boots and lace up some Tretorn tennis shoes instead. You think the rock feels slick now?
This is a good route and worth the hype, and I've done it all sorts of different ways: night, drunk, ropeless, old school (weird gear), and fast with rules. When I lived in the valley in the 80s I had a goal to do this on my lunch hour. The rules were no soloing, no simuling, and you had to place at least one piece on each pitch. (never quite made it, but close, and got the route down to 24 minutes. it's been solo'd in half that).
But what I learned from this is what you REALLY NEED. I mean, if you're putting in one piece per pitch, it should be a good one.
P1 - middle variation (my fav). a red camalot is nice to have and a .5 tcu will protect the crux. Couple of small pieces will work for the belay (tcu's better than nuts)
P2 - ramp - since this is 4th class it doesn't count. sling and biners for belay.
P3 - easy but great pitch. pro with whatever you have but save a couple of medium/small cams or nuts for belay.
P4 - a gold camalot protects that move everyone mentioned. This is the biggest piece you will need. Belay is bolted.
P5 - an assortment of small tcus allowed you to sort of sew up the mantel and back everything up. This really allows you to do it in some safety, though due to the nature of a fall off it could still result in a injured ankle, just because of the angle. But at least you won't careen down the face. They are right, though, if you've ever done a V0 mantel you're not likely to have much trouble.
Descend by heading up and left, which leads to some easy scrambling and a good trail. If something doesn't seem WELL worn, you're not going the right way. By Yosemite standards, this is cake, and will take you less than 30 minutes. It's been done a little faster. The solo up and down record for Manure Pile is 14 minutes.
Have fun!
and, yes, the less crowded routes in the middle of the face are all pretty darn fun, though you have to run things out a bit on some of em.
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ricardol
Jun 16, 2003, 10:08 PM
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In reply to: Do yourself a favor and don't do what I did. Place a directional before or just after the mantle move.
a .3 microcamalot fits perfectly in a slot above the mantle --
-- ricardo
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dingus
Jun 16, 2003, 10:24 PM
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The real skinny:
The 5.8 center start is the warrior's way. Do the 5.9 start if the center is wet or crowded with gumbies. Don't bother with the left start.
Rack: 6 - 8 nuts, depending upon your preferences, should do. Single cams to 3". No need to double on anything really. Some people like to take a 4" cam for the overlap move on P4 but it is not necessary, as someone else said. Goldicam fits there just fine.
Good microcam placement just above and to the left of the mantle move. There is plenty of pro on the easy face above if you look for it. No cheating now... straight up, don't trend left to the gully-looking thing.
DMT
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bigdan
Jun 17, 2003, 8:40 AM
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In reply to: Someday I really want to do it in the fashion that RR did with only nuts.
It's great that way! The nut placements are bomber and plenty. I usually go with just one set, that seems to cover it. If you don't feel okay running out 5.7-5.8, bring two.
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toby
Aug 14, 2003, 11:57 PM
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There were no bolts at the end of pitch 4 (about 3 weeks ago). Big cams such as 3 camalot or 3.5 friend, you can get a small cam in one spot. We went to the tree at the end of pitch 3 it might be a good way to skip by some people as well as being a fun crack.
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camhead
Aug 22, 2003, 3:02 AM
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on the aforementioned flake traverse at the top of P1 (center start) there were two bomber fixed pieces that protected the "crux." I think they were like a microcamalot and a tricam, but I can't remember. anyway, I just clipped them and went for it.
as for the mantle, it is easier for your second if you just run it out on the easy slab after the mantle. I noticed that there was a crack to the left right above the mantle that might lead people over that want to sew it up, but it would result in kind of a bad situation for the second.
quality route, eh?
I got to the bottom of the descent, and realized that I had left my helmet on the summit. lame-o-rama.
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curt
Aug 22, 2003, 3:55 AM
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In reply to: I got to the bottom of the descent, and realized that I had left my helmet on the summit. lame-o-rama.
Curt
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piton
Aug 22, 2003, 8:29 PM
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1st pitch the 5.8 way is beautiful. great climb
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