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alpinerock
Jun 28, 2003, 2:02 AM
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I don't know if this has been asked before but what is the typical crux of diiferent levels of sport climbs
EX. the crux of a 5.10a is a V0- (i really don't know this is just a wild guess)
I don't even know if u can really answer this, but its been driving me crazy
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 2:06 AM
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v3 is 12c, v7 is 13c, v11 is 14c, give or take a grade...
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curt
Jun 28, 2003, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: I don't know if this has been asked before but what is the typical crux of diiferent levels of sport climbs EX. the crux of a 5.10a is a V0- (i really don't know this is just a wild guess) I don't even know if u can really answer this, but its been driving me crazy
I would suggest the following. Go to the left menu bar for this site. Under "Articles" select "Grade Chart." Here you will find a rough comparison for converting the difficulty levels of bouldering, as defined by the "V" scale and free climbing, as denoted by the YDS. For many reasons this is an imperfect comparison--but this is a good starting point.
Curt
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alpinerock
Jun 28, 2003, 2:17 AM
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Srry my question was worded a little weird, what I'm trying to say is what is the typical CRUX of each sport rating not the climb itself, this is still worded a little weird srry if there are any more misunderstanding.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 2:26 AM
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You mean what is usually the v grage for the hardest move of a given route, I find that my above conversion is usually pretty close, v1 is 12a, etc...
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curt
Jun 28, 2003, 2:37 AM
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In reply to: You mean what is usually the v grage for the hardest move of a given route, I find that my above conversion is usually pretty close, v1 is 12a, etc...
Joe,
That sounds a bit stiff to me. When Sherman invented the "V" scale at Hueco, V1 was intended to reflect a difficulty level of about 5.10+.
V4 was about 5.12a
V7 was about 5.13a
V10 was about 5.14a
Curt
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 3:09 AM
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*Joe,
That sounds a bit stiff to me. When Sherman invented the "V" scale at Hueco, V1 was intended to reflect a difficulty level of about 5.10+.
V4 was about 5.12a
V7 was about 5.13a
V10 was about 5.14a
Curt*
Yes but since I've done like 100 times more sport routes than you and Verm put together (and bouldered enough to compare grades), I'll stick with my figures, thanks anyway. I can barely do v4 on the ground, let alone when pumped and scared, and v7 is completely out of my league. They say To Bolt (14a) at Smith is 120' of v3-4...
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alpnclmbr1
Jun 28, 2003, 3:19 AM
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Actually kalcario is not that far off for a hypothetical average crux move.
Whereas I would think Curt is referring to an overall equivalency.
The only problem is that it varies a lot from area to area.
At maple canyon a 13b could have a v2 or 3 crux, at mill creek a 12a could have a v3 or 4 crux , Logan has a bunch of 14a and b variations that all start with v9 boulder problem crux. A mt. Charleston 13b would v3,v4,v6 stacked.
AF is somewhere in the middle, say v4 for a 12+
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curt
Jun 28, 2003, 3:27 AM
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In reply to: v3 is 12c, v7 is 13c, v11 is 14c, give or take a grade...
Joe,
Believe me, I like your ratings conversions--they make me look good. If you really think V3 = 5.12c, then I guess I can fire off multiple 5.12c routes on any given day on my first try. Sadly, that has not been my experience.
Curt
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alpnclmbr1
Jun 28, 2003, 3:51 AM
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Curt if you bouldered just the crux section of a 12c at maple, red rocks, mexico, red river etc. you would hike the move just as easily as you typically do a v3 bouldering. The rest of the diffculty at these places is just endurance.
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fieldmouse
Jun 28, 2003, 4:00 AM
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In reply to: Yes but since I've done like 100 times more sport routes than you and Verm put together
I like your style, Joe- spraying and making fun of yourself in the same sentence.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 4:08 AM
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*Joe,
Believe me, I like your ratings conversions--they make me look good. If you really think V3 = 5.12c, then I guess I can fire off multiple 5.12c routes on any given day on my first try. Sadly, that has not been my experience.*
Endurance, baby. Bet you don't shake out and de-pump on jugs too often on your bouldering circuit. Also it's fairly common to describe, for instance, a 13b as being "12d with a v5 boulder problem" or something along those lines.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 4:12 AM
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*I like your style, Joe- spraying and making fun of yourself in the same sentence.*
that's how we keep the boulderers in line out here...you should see their eyes bug out when you tell 'em the route they just got utterly bouted on was like v2...
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fieldmouse
Jun 28, 2003, 4:25 AM
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In reply to: *I like your style, Joe- spraying and making fun of yourself in the same sentence.* that's how we keep the boulderers in line out here...you should see their eyes bug out when you tell 'em the route they just got utterly bouted on was like v2...
and you should see how we keep sport climbers in line out here- by making fun of them for their pansy antics and then beating them about the head and body with their own quickdraws. It works both ways, btw, Ive seen multiple instances of 5.12+ sport-weenies get worked over on moderate boulder probs.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 4:33 AM
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Ive seen multiple instances of 5.12+ sport-weenies get worked over on moderate boulder probs.*
no doubt, toe hooks and sit down starts ("butt-dynos" in the local vernacular) not being part of the repertoire in actual climbing...
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fieldmouse
Jun 28, 2003, 4:55 AM
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In reply to: Ive seen multiple instances of 5.12+ sport-weenies get worked over on moderate boulder probs.* no doubt, toe hooks and sit down starts ("butt-dynos" in the local vernacular) not being part of the repertoire in actual climbing...
oh, but apparently grabbing draws and screaming like a littlebitch are. Next time you step on a hanger when noone is watching, ask yourself if your repertoire has gotten a little too expansive.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 5:03 AM
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*oh, but apparently grabbing draws and screaming like a littlebitch are. Next time you step on a hanger when noone is watching, *
rather scream like a little bitch than gossip like one pal
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ikefromla
Jun 28, 2003, 5:05 AM
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OOOOOR. you could be a sport and bouldering weenie, like me. hike 5.12d and V9... word up 8) oh come on, i never spray... gotta have fun some times. :wink:
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fieldmouse
Jun 28, 2003, 5:14 AM
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my invitation for you to come and kick my ass is still open, h-joe. I suggest you shut your yap until then.
and Im not your pal.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 5:22 AM
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*my invitation for you to come and kick my ass is still open, h-joe. I suggest you shut your yap until then.*
easy bro, there's enough dyno-saurs bellowing in the tarpits as it is, would'nt want to lose your dazzling erudition and debating skills
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jonf
Jun 28, 2003, 5:24 AM
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Kalcario, Verm created the scale so he can set it at whatever he wants, so V4 is 12a and thats that. Also saying that your opinion on the equivalance of these grades is correct when you can barely climb V4 and can't touch V7 isnt right. If you climbed at these levels and could make accurate comparisons than maybe your opinion would have some validity.
Bouldering and sport climbing are too different to compare easily anyway, the V-scale is refering to what the moves of the problem would be if rated in YDS not that completing a 5.12a is as difficult as sending a V4, many routes dont contain a single move at the difficulty of its grade, but instead links many moves with no rest making it very sustained.
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fieldmouse
Jun 28, 2003, 5:32 AM
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In reply to: *my invitation for you to come and kick my ass is still open, h-joe. I suggest you shut your yap until then.* easy bro, there's enough dyno-saurs bellowing in the tarpits as it is, would'nt want to lose your dazzling erudition and debating skills
alright, jeen-yis, what exactly did I say that could possibly jeopardize my dazzling erudition and debating skills? Id say im safe from the dogs of war for now at least. Way to back down from a challenge in true sport-climber fashion, though.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 5:56 AM
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* Also saying that your opinion on the equivalance of these grades is correct when you can barely climb V4 and can't touch V7 isnt right. If you climbed at these levels and could make accurate comparisons than maybe your opinion would have some validity.*
My opinion above v4-5 and 13b-c is based on hearsay, listening to actual climbers describe and compare route cruxes and v-grades (jason says frogtown is v8-9, chris says pulling off the ground on biographie is v11, etc.).
*Bouldering and sport climbing are too different to compare easily anyway, the V-scale is refering to what the moves of the problem would be if rated in YDS not that completing a 5.12a is as difficult as sending a V4, many routes dont contain a single move at the difficulty of its grade, but instead links many moves with no rest making it very sustained.*
The logical way to compare 2 things is based on what they have in common, which for sport routes and bouldering is single move difficulty... and not much else. It's pretty easy to compare the hardest move on a route to a given v-grade. I think that saying that a 12a pitch, the whole pitch, is v4, like I hear people (usually boulderers) try to do, doesn't really make sense
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ikefromla
Jun 28, 2003, 6:08 AM
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The crux of The Gift (5.12d) is V4.
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kalcario
Jun 28, 2003, 6:14 AM
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*The crux of The Gift (5.12d) is V4.*
There you go. 12c is (usually) v3, 12d is v4...I could give 100 other examples
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