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needmoregear
Jul 9, 2003, 1:58 PM
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hey all,
i am going out to tucson from 7/31 to 8/3 and was wondering
how the situation on Mt. Lemmon is. I was hoping to do some
climbing out there, but it seems like from the news that the entire
area has burned or is currently burning. anyone have any ideas
for other nice areas around tucson that are not on fire? you know,
the additional wear to your gear from being on fire and stuff kinda
sucks...
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traddad
Jul 9, 2003, 2:02 PM
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Crispy.
They "should" have the fire controlled in a week or so, barring any wind changes, etc. but I wouldn't count on climbing there before they get a LOT of rain.
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needmoregear
Jul 9, 2003, 2:06 PM
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i am curious. haven't been in the aftermath of a wild fire.
do the routes accumilate soot and make them unclimbable?
do you need to wait for several good rainstorms to wash the
area out?
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akornylak
Jul 9, 2003, 3:27 PM
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The mountain is set to reopen soon, but only for residents of the town at the top.
as far as climbing goes, most of the problem is going to be access. the main areas affected are the summit crags, the Aspen Loop crags, the Wilderness of Rocks boulders and all of the Reef of Rock. Also, some backcountry climbing in Esperero Canyon, pretty much the whole wilderness area on the North Side (Catalina State Park access). Its a mess. There is no official word from the FS but considering last year's Bullock Fire, which took out about 40K acres, affecting one or two crags, has shut down the whole upper east side of the mtn for a year, this fire, which is nearing 100K acres, should take care of the rest of the upper mountain. We'll see.
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akornylak
Jul 9, 2003, 3:30 PM
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oh, so to answer the other part of your question :?
Its going to be hot anywhere else, but if you are willing to do an alpine start, you can still climb down in Cochise Stronghold in the shade, Milagrosa Canyon (right in the foot of Mt Lemmon) in the shade, and maybe some other wilderness areas down south. You could try the Dry too, but its an oven. See you at the gym :)
Good luck
A
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jt512
Jul 9, 2003, 4:10 PM
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In reply to: oh, so to answer the other part of your question :? Its going to be hot anywhere else, but if you are willing to do an alpine start, you can still climb down in Cochise Stronghold in the shade, Milagrosa Canyon (right in the foot of Mt Lemmon) in the shade, and maybe some other wilderness areas down south. You could try the Dry too, but its an oven. See you at the gym :) Good luck A
105 degrees in the shade is still 105 degrees. Use your alpine start to make the 3.5-hour drive to Flagstaff and climb at the somewhat cooler 7000-ft crags. Chase the shade at The Pit until 2:00 pm, at which time the entire crag goes into the shade. For trad in the Flagstaff area, there's Paradise Forks, and there is bouldering all over the place.
-Jay
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mingthemerciless
Jul 9, 2003, 4:14 PM
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3.5 hours?! How the hell fast are you driving?
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jt512
Jul 9, 2003, 4:20 PM
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In reply to: 3.5 hours?! How the hell fast are you driving?
It's a 250-mi drive, and it's freeway all the way.
-Jay
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traddad
Jul 9, 2003, 4:42 PM
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Introducing Andrew Kornylak:
One Kick - Ass photographer.
www.akornphoto.com
Upload some pics....will ya already!
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climbsomething
Jul 10, 2003, 5:11 AM
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Lemmon? Sorry. You're S.O.L., and probly for awhile too. Cochise climbing is hit and miss this time of year- it's, um, HOT outside. The elevation at Cochise is only marginally greater than in Tucson. If you want to climb in Tucson, you'll just have to go to the gym. From the parking lot, you have an excellent view of the flames at night :?
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akornylak
Jul 13, 2003, 3:34 AM
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In reply to: 105 degrees in the shade is still 105 degrees. Use your alpine start to make the 3.5-hour drive to Flagstaff and climb at the somewhat cooler 7000-ft crags. Chase the shade at The Pit until 2:00 pm, at which time the entire crag goes into the shade. For trad in the Flagstaff area, there's Paradise Forks, and there is bouldering all over the place. -Jay
Actually, Milagrosa is quite pleasant in the am shade, as it is a low canyon, and gets a temp inversion. Scott Ayres reports good conditions as of a couple weeks ago. Ditto with the Stronghold, but a longer drive. Still, thats it for Tucson. The fire is contained now, but word is, not open to the public until sept.
As for 3.5 hrs to flag, best time for me is about 4-4.5 hours, house to Paradise Forks. In fact Ive done it as a day trip, getting in 12 routes each.
So, not so far fetched.
sorry about the caveman talk. holding a newborn :)
cheers
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akornylak
Jul 13, 2003, 3:36 AM
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In reply to: Introducing Andrew Kornylak: One Kick - Ass photographer. www.akornphoto.com Upload some pics....will ya already!
thanks for the compliments! Ill post some. -A
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jt512
Jul 13, 2003, 5:30 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: 105 degrees in the shade is still 105 degrees. Use your alpine start to make the 3.5-hour drive to Flagstaff and climb at the somewhat cooler 7000-ft crags. Chase the shade at The Pit until 2:00 pm, at which time the entire crag goes into the shade. For trad in the Flagstaff area, there's Paradise Forks, and there is bouldering all over the place. -Jay Actually, Milagrosa is quite pleasant in the am shade, as it is a low canyon, and gets a temp inversion. Scott Ayres reports good conditions as of a couple weeks ago.
Can you quantify "pleasant" and "good conditions" in terms of specific temperatures? I was climbing at the Pit last weekend in 90 degree heat in the shade listening to the locals rave about the "perfect redpoint weather."
-Jay
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bluto
Jul 13, 2003, 6:16 PM
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Jay,
If it was too hot for you, perhaps staying in your beloved Southern California would have been a better choice for your delicate, oh so temperature sensitive self. Nobody wants to hear you whine and state the obvious, that yes indeed it does get hot in the southwest in the summertime.
Arizonan who can take the heat
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crackaddict
Jul 13, 2003, 8:31 PM
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Here is the Aspen fire home page.
Check out the 3-D images of the burn areas. Very sad and depresssing. The whole mountain is toast.
Anyway Lemmon wont be an option till after some Monsoons. But even after that they still might not let you up there to climb. Alot of the burn areas that happened last year from the Rodeo/Chediski fire are just barley being opened back up. Due to some enviromentalist crap or something.
Anyway try Queen creek in the early AM or late PM. The Homestead has some afternoon shade to offer as well. Other than that head up to Flag.
Later..
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akornylak
Jul 13, 2003, 8:37 PM
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In reply to: Can you quantify "pleasant" and "good conditions" in terms of specific temperatures? I was climbing at the Pit last weekend in 90 degree heat in the shade listening to the locals rave about the "perfect redpoint weather." -Jay
OK. Lows are in the 70s in the valley, even when its 105 during the day. Even at 9am, the temps are not yet in the 90s, thats in the sun. Milagrosa feels about 10 deg cooler. This is during the worst part of summer. He's looking for places to climb near Tucson after all.
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fracture
Jul 13, 2003, 10:31 PM
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In reply to: Jay, If it was too hot for you, perhaps staying in your beloved Southern California would have been a better choice for your delicate, oh so temperature sensitive self. Nobody wants to hear you whine and state the obvious, that yes indeed it does get hot in the southwest in the summertime.
Is it just me, or do people somehow flame Jay in every thread he participates in? :?
In reply to: Arizonan who can take the heat
I'm from Tucson originally (in Austin now); just made a quick trip back a few weeks ago also (sadly the fire forced me to get my climbing fix in the local gym)---but 105 degrees is 105 degrees, no matter where you're from. :roll:
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 3:43 PM
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In reply to: Jay, If it was too hot for you, perhaps staying in your beloved Southern California would have been a better choice for your delicate, oh so temperature sensitive self. Nobody wants to hear you whine and state the obvious, that yes indeed it does get hot in the southwest in the summertime. Arizonan who can take the heat
Dickhead, if you want to climb in sweltering heat, be my guest...or you can get in your car and seek out temperatures more conducive for redpointing. It's not a question of whether one can "take" it; if you are serious about sending hard routes, you climb where temperatures are more reasonable.
My girlfriend lives in Tucson, so we either climb in AZ or SoCal, wherever conditions are best. If there really is somewhere in Tucson that is a) not on fire and b) cool enough to climb, I'd like to know.
-Jay
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 3:45 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Jay, If it was too hot for you, perhaps staying in your beloved Southern California would have been a better choice for your delicate, oh so temperature sensitive self. Nobody wants to hear you whine and state the obvious, that yes indeed it does get hot in the southwest in the summertime. Is it just me, or do people somehow flame Jay in every thread he participates in? :?
Yeah, but they're just bitter, weak trad climbers, so I don't take it seriously. ;)
-Jay
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bluto
Jul 14, 2003, 4:42 PM
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Jay,
I am extremely disappointed that you have resorted to using immature, playground like, language such as "dickhead" It is very un-becoming of a man of your age and maturity level.
When discussing the merits of temperature vs. climbing ability it is important to remember that being acclimated plays a large role. What you, a Southern Californian, may find "unreasonable" temperatures to climb in, may seem very reasonable to someone who resides in Phoenix or Tucson and is accustomed to 100 degree plus temperatures.
Those of us who do dwell in warmer climates than yourself can make "serious" redpoint attempts in 90 degree temperatures. Simply because you cannot, you shouldn't presume that others can't.
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 5:02 PM
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In reply to: When discussing the merits of temperature vs. climbing ability it is important to remember that being acclimated plays a large role. What you, a Southern Californian, may find "unreasonable" temperatures to climb in, may seem very reasonable to someone who resides in Phoenix or Tucson and is accustomed to 100 degree plus temperatures. Those of us who do dwell in warmer climates than yourself can make "serious" redpoint attempts in 90 degree temperatures. Simply because you cannot, you shouldn't presume that others can't.
If you don't want to be called a dickhead, then stop acting like one. Simply because I understand the benefits of cooler temperatures you shouldn't presume that I can't, haven't, and don't make "'serious' redpoint attempts in 90 degree temperatures."
You can make all the attempts you want, but more of them will be successful in cooler temperatures, all else equal. I'm sure that there is some acclimatization, but I'm equally sure that even a climber who is used to climbing in hot weather will still find it easier to send in cooler weather. Your hands will sweat less, the rock will sweat less, and your shoe rubber will stick better.
-Jay
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bluto
Jul 14, 2003, 5:47 PM
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Jay,
Your last post displays the fact that your knowledge is somewhat impaired in regard to the dynamics of heat, humidity levels, and behavior of rubber in a climate such as Arizona. At temperatures in the 90's and relative humidity levels in the single digits, perspiration evaporates almost instantly from the skin. It would be very difficult to develop sweaty hands in these types of conditions. As to the rock "sweating" this is also a very difficult proposition in a desert environment such as Arizona. Lack of rainfall and relative humidity results in bone dry rock. Rock can sweat in more humid climates, such as coastal southern california or the east. In regards to shoe rubber, it is well known scientific fact that rubber actually becomes more sticky at higher temperatures, and less sticky and hard at cooler temperatures.
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trillium
Jul 14, 2003, 5:56 PM
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Last January I set up a climbing trip to Mt. Lemmon for June 21 (not long after the fire broke out.) We switched directions and ended up in Acadia National Park, Maine where there was no fire and no flooding.
If I were you I would consider another area to climb besides Tuscon for the rest of the summer at least.
JMHO
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needmoregear
Jul 14, 2003, 6:13 PM
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let me jump back on my thread before it degenerates into a 10 page
long flame fest about how the temperature and its relation to climbing.
for the record, i am going out to tucson because my new girlfriend's
mom lives out there and we have a free place to stay. she has just
started climbing and i am only a 5.10ish lead sport climber. so i am just
looking to see some different climbing areas, climb a little bit, and scout
out the area for maybe getting a trip together with some of my more hard
core climbing buddies here in houston.
so how hot it is is kinda irrelevant. i have hiked all over zion in august
(100+ degrees), and climb regularly in austin, tx (95+ degrees and
HUMID) and even climb occasionally multipitch in el petro (very hot, very
humid, all around sucks ass, but is great sport multipitch within driving
distance of houston).
hot weather sucks. i don't think there is any disagreement there. i really
miss living in hermosa beach, ca but i am in houston, tx now and am
trying to make the most of it and not bitch about the weather.
being baked and sweating your ass off is much better than sitting on
your ass at home.
thanks for all the info guys, i really do appreciate it. can't we all just get
along?? lets stop the flame festing / bitching.
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epic_ed
Jul 14, 2003, 6:16 PM
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In reply to: thanks for all the info guys, i really do appreciate it. can't we all just get along?? lets stop the flame festing / bitching.
HaHa! That was funny. You ain't seen nothin' yet. Unfortunately. :roll:
Ed
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