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Max. Lead falls on a rope
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ichimonkey


Jul 9, 2003, 9:57 PM
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Max. Lead falls on a rope
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I wanted to know how many time you can fall an a lead rope before it should be retired. My buddy thinks you should stop using it after about 10 but I am thinking there is nothing wrong with more.
What is the most falls you have put on a rope. Do ropes break or just stop streching?


muncher


Jul 9, 2003, 10:09 PM
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Re: Max. Lead falls on a rope [In reply to]
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There is no exact answer for this question. It could be one really big fall or a hundred small ones. Frequently check your rope for damage and retire it when you no longer feel comfortable leading on it.

I am not aware of any cases of a climbing rope breaking (maybe Dan Osman's but that is a little different) without being cut over an edge.

Do a search on the forums and I am sure you will find plenty of info on this topic. Also check the manufacturers websites.


ropeburn


Jul 9, 2003, 11:43 PM
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Re: Max. Lead falls on a rope [In reply to]
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Think about all the redundancy in your climbing system. Your normally above more than one piece of pro aren't you? Now think about its one singularity, the rope(assuming your not using double or twin ropes). Check your rope frequently, inspect it carefully, and retire it before you would be deathly scared to fall on it. It's just a rope, push yourself instead of it.





:mrgreen:


Partner coldclimb


Jul 9, 2003, 11:54 PM
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This is like the third post asking this same question in the last two days... :?


fishypete


Jul 10, 2003, 12:52 AM
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Exactly CC! There must be somthing in the air that suddenly everyone is starting to wonder just how close their rope is to snapping...

P.


traddad


Jul 10, 2003, 6:39 AM
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Maybe we should just install a permanent link to Fish's Tech Weenie page.....


jt512


Jul 10, 2003, 10:09 AM
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In reply to:
I wanted to know how many time you can fall an a lead rope before it should be retired. My buddy thinks you should stop using it after about 10 but I am thinking there is nothing wrong with more.
What is the most falls you have put on a rope.

Manufactures put a tag on every rope they sell that explains this in a dozen different languages. If you bothered to read the one that came with yours you wouldn't be asking this question, nor would the other 10 people who've asked it in the past week. Go read your tag, or do a forums search for the answer.

In reply to:
Do ropes break or just stop streching?

Hmmm, both or neither, depending on how you look at it. Ropes in good condition don't break if properly used; damaged ones can. Ropes don't stop stretching; however, they stretch less with use, and age, independent of use.

-Jay


elvislegs


Jul 10, 2003, 11:06 AM
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Exactly CC! There must be somthing in the air that suddenly everyone is starting to wonder just how close their rope is to snapping...

That "something in the air" IS all of us. heh. Get it! allll of us! ha!


nagchampa


Jul 10, 2003, 11:41 AM
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I submitted a post just the other day about the same subject, and got the same smart a$$ answer from jt512. Obviously he has no information on the subject. Why he feels compelled to keep dropping his 2 cents, I have no idea. FYI jt512 not all ropes come with a big pamphlet of information. Look at a Beal rope next time your in a store and see how much info comes with it.
Anyways the reason I asked the question a few days ago was because one of my buddies (the guy who got me into climbing 8 years ago) questioned whether I should retire my rope saying I should pay attention to the UIAA fall rating, count my falls, and work accordingly. Well for the first time I really think he is way off on the subject. After I didn't get much help here on the forum, I went out and contacted some knowledgable sources on the subject, and I figured I'd should post what I found here to help out anyone else with the same question.

Black Diamond: called and talked to a representative there. I was told the best way to determine if a rope is safe or not is to inspect the rope before each use. Now this might not mean much to everyone, so I asked him to explain "inspect". What you are looking for is any fault in the core, because obviously that's the part that is going to catch you (the sheath's primary purpose is to keep the elements away from the core). As you feel along the rope squeezing the core feel for any mushy parts or any places where you can feel your finger on the other side. I asked the guys personal preferrence on life and he said usually every 2 years he retires depending upon use. Ofcourse as all the people I talked to said - it's always a personal judgement call, and since your life is on the other end of that rope it's always better safe than sorry.

Beal Website: I have a Beal Flyer and so the guy at BD reccomended I visit the website to get more technical information. I went there and I was really impressed (reminded me of Petzl with all the helpful safety information). If you go to http://www.beal-planet.com and you click on the button all the way to the left called "impact force" you can find a bunch of neat technical information. I love physics, so this stuff might not be as interesting to everyone else, but I thought it was really interesting to learn about all the physics involved in the whole equation. Especially the part about the amount of energy each rope is able to "aborb" leading to a lower impact force thereby reducing the maximum force on the last runner. I always wondered what exactly all the numbers meant. Also if you are really a nut on the subject you can look into purchasing their "security pack" which has a DVD with all kinds of information on impact force, maintenenance, etc...Even if you aren't a complete nut on the subject you should click on the security pack button and watch the extract from the video "Verification and control". It shows another method of rope inspection showing how to examine visually for kinks by taking small sections (working your way from one end to the other) and watching the bend as you roll it from side to side.

PMI: talked to a sales rep there. She got info from their technical people and they had one additional note to what BD said by saying you should always inspect your rope before ever use. The in addition part they said no matter what type of use, you should never use a rope once it gets 7 years old. Ofcourse as all the people I talked to said - it's always a personal judgement call, and since your life is on the other end of that rope it's always better safe than sorry.

Local Climbing Gym owner: This might not sound like as much of a reputable source as the ones above, but he's quite knowledgeable on the subject and has been climbing for quite a while, not to mention keeping control of rope wear is a big part of his everyday work, and ofcourse the last thing you want is to have someone come to your gym and fall because you are using faulty equipment. Anyways he said they inspect their ropes in a very similar way to the way the BD guy suggested, and said that ropes will often last alot longer than you would think. He said it's hardly ever the piece of gear that fails. Said you'll usually get tired of a rope before it gets to the point where it needs replaced. Ofcourse as all the people I talked to said - it's always a personal judgement call, and since your life is on the other end of that rope it's always better safe than sorry.

Personal thoughts after all my research. I'm real happy I looked into the subject to give me piece of mind while I'm on the rock. I'm going to definitely take the time before every outing to thouroughly inspect my rope both ways, and I'll keep this thing until I notice wear to the core, then I'll go out and get a new rope. Actually with all this research on ropes I found my next rope, and I'm kind of hoping I'll need a new one soon. I think I'm gonna trim down to a 9.7mm with that Beal Booster II in a 70m. Looks like just the rope I want to RP 40 ounces with next season. If anyone knows where I can special order a 70m please let me know.

Hope this helps anyone else out there with the same question.


jt512


Jul 10, 2003, 12:21 PM
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In reply to:
I submitted a post just the other day about the same subject, and got the same smart a$$ answer from jt512.

It's not a "smart-ass" answer. It's the correct answer: follow the manufacturer's recommendation, which is printed on the tag.

In reply to:
Obviously he has no information on the subject. Why he feels compelled to keep dropping his 2 cents, I have no idea.

Why clueless morons such as yourself are too lazy to read the tag that comes with their rope is beyond me. Asking the quesiton on this forum just leads to other clueless morons stating their cherished, ignorant "opinions," and you learn nothing. Even if I were to spell out the correct answer, it would just get lost in the clutter of misinformation, so the answer is to seek out the manufacturer's advice on your own.

In reply to:
FYI jt512 not all ropes come with a big pamphlet of information. Look at a Beal rope next time your in a store and see how much info comes with it.

I don't have to look at the store. The last three ropes I've owned have been Beals, and they all came with a hang tag that explained when to retire the rope.

In reply to:
Anyways the reason I asked the question a few days ago was because one of my buddies (the guy who got me into climbing 8 years ago) questioned whether I should retire my rope saying I should pay attention to the UIAA fall rating, count my falls, and work accordingly. Well for the first time I really think he is way off on the subject. After I didn't get much help here on the forum, I went out and contacted some knowledgable sources on the subject, and I figured I'd should post what I found here to help out anyone else with the same question.

Black Diamond: called and talked to a representative there. I was told the best way to determine if a rope is safe or not is to inspect the rope before each use....

For Chrissake, after all your whining that I didn't spoonfeed you the answer, you essentially did what I suggested in the first place (check the manufacturer's recommendation), got the definitive answer I said you'd get, and actually learned something.

You're welcome.

-Jay


benpullin


Jul 10, 2003, 12:47 PM
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Jay, how many top-rope falls can a rope hold?

:)


jt512


Jul 10, 2003, 12:56 PM
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In reply to:
Jay, how many top-rope falls can a rope hold?

:)

Depends on what you've used to mark the middle of the rope. I use an Xacto knife, since the marking is permanent and and provides a handy inspection port for the core.

-Jay


benpullin


Jul 10, 2003, 12:59 PM
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That's a great idea! I 'll try that. I used to mark my rope using home-made ink that I concoct from suntan lotion, deet, and battery acid.


nagchampa


Jul 10, 2003, 2:14 PM
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Not that I really want to get into a whole pissing match with you jt512, but I just bought that Flyer at the beginning of this season and it came in a bag with a piece of thin cardboard identifying the length, diameter, and treatment, and a couple of temporary plastic straps to keep it rolled that's it. Definitely not a comprehensive booklet to calculate usage in 50 languages. If you're talking about the writing on the tape at the end of the rope, there is no way you can determine when to retire a rope from looking at the UIAA test results.
You act like it's so crazy we didn't know how to best determine if a rope is safe or not. Obviously it isn't such common knowledge since there are so many posts about it. I've been climbing for quite a while and I didn't really think about it too much until someone questioned it last week at the crag (my rope had alot of that black junk on it, which seems to collect alot more on the Beal because of the single dry treatment you get on all their ropes). In the past I'd just keep the rope until it started looking questionable, then I'd go get a new one. There are so many different types of climbing so many different variables. The only real way to determine the safely of a rope is to carefully inspect it before each use, and I didn't once see you mention how to inspect a rope to determine if it's safe or not. I just saw you spout off about looking at some special pamphlet you got with your rope.
I'm done.


jt512


Jul 10, 2003, 2:35 PM
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In reply to:
Not that I really want to get into a whole pissing match with you jt512, but I just bought that Flyer at the beginning of this season and it came in a bag with a piece of thin cardboard identifying the length, diameter, and treatment, and a couple of temporary plastic straps to keep it rolled that's it.

Well, mine had a tag. Maybe yours came off.

In reply to:
Obviously it isn't such common knowledge since there are so many posts about it.

What this indicates to me is the deplorable state of ignorance among today's climbers. To trust your life to a piece of equipment and be clueless about its limitations is really quite stupid.

In reply to:
I've been climbing for quite a while and I didn't really think about it too much until someone questioned it last week...

See my comment above.

In reply to:
I'm done.

You're clueless, but slightly less so because you followed my suggestion to get the definitive anshwer from the manufacturer instead of relying on me or a bunch of your clueless compatriots for "opinions" on which your safety depends. Okay, so your rope didn't have a tag and you had to contact the manufacturer directly. Same thing. Either way my refusal to spoonfeed you the answer imepelled you to get information provided by the manufacturer. Now stop whining already and admit that you're better off for my having directed you to definitive information instead of just reading another "opinion" in a discussion forum.

-Jay


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