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illimaniman
May 22, 2003, 9:39 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2002
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I thought this was funny. REI's website has SMC descending rings, and if you scroll down to the specs at the right side of the page, look what it says about what they're suitable for. I think they need to be more specific about what they mean by that.
http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=997&parent_category_rn=4500695
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apollodorus
Jul 13, 2003, 7:12 AM
Post #27 of 45
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Registered: Feb 18, 2002
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Steel rings are the way to go; stainless is even better. Lowering off quickly wears out aluminum, even biners. Dirt and grit in the sheath of the rope turns it into a long, skinny piece of sandpaper. Granite is mostly silicon dioxide, which is #2 on the hardness scale, right behind diamond.
I left a couple of biners at the top of the Sacherer Cracker for a few days when fixing the first few pitches of Bermuda Dunes. Everybody who did the climb must have lowered off my gear, because one of the brand-new lockers had a groove worn into it. I would guess that, at most, fifteen people had lowered off it, but that was enough to wear a 3/16" deep groove.
Those aluminum rap rings are only about 1/4" in diameter.
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dirtineye
Jul 13, 2003, 11:34 AM
Post #28 of 45
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Kong makes great big honking fat rings, steel or aluminum. Wholesale they were 2 bucks for the aluminum a year ago. By big fat honking I mean way thicker than any biner you've ever seen. they are cast and solid.
I still like the idea of two rings and two slings.
If I were going to leave em at a single pitch that got any traffic, I'd prefer to leave 2 stainless Kong rings I know they make aluminum and the steel I THINK I remember seeing stainless too), but someone would steal em and you can bet the'd get TRed through.
Ushba makes machined titanium rings, but they are about the size of the old hollow aluminum ones, and I am sure they are expensive. I don't remember what I paid for em though.
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pirate
Jul 13, 2003, 8:32 PM
Post #29 of 45
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Registered: May 12, 2003
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For myself and partner we use rap rings for sure. they are the roller aluminum type. The reason we use these are, for alpine climbing they are super light and plenty strong and durable as leaver rings to get us down. You can cary 10 on a rack without a significant weight increase.
Contrary to what some people think these are strong light and plenty durable as leavers. I always use a NEW single ring and rapell thousands of feet up with complete confidence, Hell thats what they were desighned for....But when your ropes are freezing up, then its time to leave a biener. gear is replacable, you are not. what will you do when your pullin your rope down after a rappel and the heat of the friction on the sling combined with the conditions cause your rope to actually freeze into the ice and now your rope is stuck and the other end is hanging 60' up (dont think this doesnt happen) If its truly full conditions out. a ring might even plug right up as the frozen rope bends over the ring breaking off and redepositing ice and then bang the rope is stuck..... yes even with a controlled steady speed continual pull. Thats when a biener will be your only ticket.
But back to the rap rings in most scenarios they are ETS when used correctly.........remember for confidence with the rolled ones use a new one, know the history of your gear.
For me the rolled ones are the only rings Ill cary otherwise Ill leave a biener I dont see the use for steel rap rings when a biener is not much more in price and weights not much of an issue and hell a biener is way more versitile right?
But hey thats just my opinion which may not be even worth 2 cents.....just do your research from reliable scorces dont just take the opinion of strangers online.
PS mine are the SMC ones and currently I have about 50 new ones on stand by.
:wink:
Cheers
Shawn
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watersprite
Jul 19, 2003, 4:39 PM
Post #30 of 45
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I have two rap rings - and they're so cute!! they're not the screw on quicklinks that this thread devolved into. They're round and I think they're for bailing off a route.
But I could never part with them, for sentimental reasons. Does someone want to send me their old rap rings so I'll have some to leave behind? :lol:
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watersprite
Jul 19, 2003, 4:42 PM
Post #31 of 45
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oh, this isn't the thread about the screw links. I have descending rings, but I think they were used to rap from - with the rope threaded through the rings, through one and out the other... don't jump on me, guys! I'm not using them as gear, but in what situation would they be used as a rap device?
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moondog
Jul 19, 2003, 7:47 PM
Post #32 of 45
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SMC aluminum rap rings are very strong (16.6 kN - stronger than the load required by the CE harness standard) and when properly used, one is more than enough. That said, Aluminium rap rings are one of the most misused pieces of gear out there. They were designed to facilitate pulling ropes on "adventure" climbs and not for heavy use at crags (that's why they're so light). It is generally irresponsible to place one in any frequent or high use area (i.e. a crag) because they wear and weaken very rapidly from rope pulls. AL rap rings were designed to be used only once. If you climb in an area where you know others will follow, please be smart and leave a burly screw link or other suitable steel ring.
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papounet
Jul 25, 2003, 3:56 PM
Post #33 of 45
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Registered: May 28, 2003
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I would favor screwlink above rappel ring.
Although more expansive, they are more versatile (can be used on fixed anchor).
I bought one which sits on my harness at all time. I got a second one from a route where people bailed.
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double
Jul 30, 2003, 3:34 PM
Post #34 of 45
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Three related questions:
Is it ok to girthhitch the slings to the hangers and then attach rap rings, or do the slings need to be attached with a quick link to the hangers?
How long can a nylon sling be trusted hanging outside?
How long can steel rap rings/quick links be trusted?
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neadamthal
Jul 30, 2003, 4:19 PM
Post #35 of 45
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Registered: Dec 2, 2002
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yeah, the specs on those AL rings at the rei site doesn't really tell you WHAT you're to use them for. weird.
no rappelling, no belaying, no piercing, no ingesting...
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timpanogos
Sep 25, 2003, 3:55 AM
Post #36 of 45
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I don't think anything about rappelling multi-pitch scares me more than the thought of stuck ropes! For those of you proposing two rap rings on floppy nylon, you may want to rethink this. You have a configuration that can easily become a synching ring situation when it comes time to pull those ropes!
For me, one ring, and even one sling (if I placed it) - I'll body weight that bugger, with a calmer mind knowing I have a simple, uncluttered pull.
Chad
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mesomorf
Sep 25, 2003, 4:45 AM
Post #37 of 45
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OK, I'll bite.
What's a "synching ring situation?"
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timpanogos
Sep 26, 2003, 5:15 AM
Post #38 of 45
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ya know, like a belt with two rings, you run the webbing through the two rings and it synches up tight.
Ok, take two rings, run your rope through them, now get some of that extra 2nd sling pulled into the rings with the rope, the whole thing will bind up tight enough for you to crap your pants as you jug back up on the thing because there is no way you are going to pull it.
Like getting some webbing sucked into your belay device.
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sixter
Sep 26, 2003, 5:45 AM
Post #39 of 45
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In reply to: ya know, like a belt with two rings, you run the webbing through the two rings and it synches up tight. Ok, take two rings, run your rope through them, now get some of that extra 2nd sling pulled into the rings with the rope, the whole thing will bind up tight enough for you to crap your pants as you jug back up on the thing because there is no way you are going to pull it. Like getting some webbing sucked into your belay device.
Oh, do you mean this word?
Main Entry: [2]cinch
Date: 1866
transitive senses
1 : to put a cinch on
2 : to make certain : ASSURE
intransitive senses
: to tighten the cinch — often used with up
Still having difficulty seeing the situation you describe on a well thought out anchor. *blink blink*
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squish
Sep 26, 2003, 5:49 AM
Post #40 of 45
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I think the spelling you're looking for is "cinch," not "synch."
Still, I'm not sure I understand the problem you're concerned about.
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timpanogos
Sep 26, 2003, 6:32 AM
Post #41 of 45
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Yea, cinch like that's a cinch, easy, should have spelled it right in the first place.
Ok, let me try one last time. I assume that if you have gone to the bother of having two rings, you also have two slings. Worse case is two slings, one ring per sling - however, two slings fed through 2 rings could be just as bad.
Let's say your knot leaves the right ring, so you start pulling the right rope when done rapping. The presure hits the right ring/webbing and the weight comes off the left ring/webbing, the left ring and webbing are now just hanging there, possibly rubbing on the rope as it is being pulled through the right ring. Ok now the rope is trying to pull that left ring through the right ring, just this ring to ring to rope can cause lots of friction. Now have the rope pick up a bit of the webbing on that second sling and suck in into the right ring and you have synched up a 2 ring/rope/webbing cinch.
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tahquitztwo
Sep 26, 2003, 6:43 AM
Post #42 of 45
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Registered: Jun 1, 2002
Posts: 197
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Thanks for all the useful info :D
I've always carried a couple of spare aluminum rings to rap from and either spare webbing or at least a couple of waterknotted slings that can be utilized when needed.
There are too many deaths in the yearly "accidents" report that are attributed to folks rapping directly on slings and the rope burns through the slings.
Leaving a piece or two of gear worth only a buck or two is better than losing one's life. :shock:
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joegoesup
Sep 26, 2003, 1:47 PM
Post #43 of 45
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Registered: Jun 26, 2003
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I prefer the 5\16 screw links. They are useable for other party's, and are about the same price as rap rings.
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lazide
Sep 26, 2003, 2:05 PM
Post #44 of 45
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Registered: Aug 22, 2002
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That is a pretty far fetched scenario. :roll: If the rope is running through both rings, the weight of the rope keeps them both pressed together. Even if you manually thread the rope to do this exact thing (which would take some doing), it doesn't quite do the effect you describe in most situations due to the way you SHOULD usually be running the anchor webbing and the way the rope is run.
The cinching ring effect only works with a specific routing of webbing or cord which you are never going to do when setting up a rap. For this that still aren't visualizing this - take a look at a motorcycle helmet or petzl harness with the auto-double back buckles. They work basically this exact way.
Even if it does, all you have to do is pull on the other side of the rope and it will run free without the 'cinching' effect (albeit with increased friction due to the assinine way you ran the rope).
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godsmybelayer
Sep 26, 2003, 2:16 PM
Post #45 of 45
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Registered: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 117
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Here's something funny, R.E.I's store information database specifically says that their rap rings are not rated for rappelling....lol :?
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