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simzboardr
Jul 12, 2003, 8:32 PM
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I have a few questions that deal with hauling and just the bags in general.
When hauling two bags is is best to have them one above the other or side by side.
Do you guys load your bags with everything clipped into daisy's (or something like it) so everything is clipped in all the time or is it best to leave the sleeping bag, pad, bivy and other night stuff just in the bottom and only clip in the stuff that is going to get used during the actual climbing.
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evoltobmilc
Jul 12, 2003, 8:38 PM
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Depending on how heavy the loads are, and how big (or strong) you are, it may be convenient to hang one from the bottom of the other. That is, if it won't be too heavy to haul both bags at once, then this is a nice option that minmizes clusterf*(#.
As far as clipping everything in, it's always a good idea, and probably the best policy, but sometimes just not feasible when packing a huge bag. I don't usually clip everything in inside the bags. That said, it's really easy to lose stuff that's near the top of the bag not clipped in, when you're pulling something out from underneath it. Just be damn sure you aren't going to drop everything (or anything!).
David
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brutusofwyde
Jul 12, 2003, 9:00 PM
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In reply to: When hauling two bags is is best to have them one above the other or side by side.
Side by side. Makes for easier access to the tops of both bags.
In reply to: Do you guys load your bags with everything clipped into daisy's (or something like it) so everything is clipped in all the time or is it best to leave the sleeping bag, pad, bivy and other night stuff just in the bottom and only clip in the stuff that is going to get used during the actual climbing.
I do not put sleeping pad, bag, etc. at the bottom. For one thing, if you get a water bottle leaking, you will end up with soaked bivy gear. For another, the sleeping pad is the best protection (except cardboard, which turns to mush in the rain or when a water bottle leaks) against haul bag wear and protection for the bag's contents.
Haul bag waist straps, 4-foot 1/4" shock cord with loops in each end, and shoulder straps (if detachable) go in the bottom of the bag. Then trash. Then rain gear (if stellar weather) then water bottles, except for about a 1-2 day supply.
everything else above that.
Usually we have an accessory "day bag" that is clipped just inside the top of the haul bag, things like camera, day water, food, light jacket, and tunes go in that.
Brutus
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flamer
Jul 12, 2003, 9:34 PM
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Yeah listen to Brutus!
Hey pete,
Are you planning on taking 2 bags up the leaning tower? If so you are probably taking way to much stuff! Providing there are only 2 of you. Think long and hard before you go as to whether all the extra's will be worth the work....
josh
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apollodorus
Jul 12, 2003, 10:27 PM
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If you are taking two pigs up a wall, you should consider using two haul lines. If you have enough stuff for two pigs, their combined weight may be too much without using a 2:1 or similar setup. It's easier to haul two lighter bags than to fight one heavy load up in one shot.
If you have too much stuff for one pig, see if you can put some of it on catchlines that hang below the pig. If you hang your sleeping bag, extra clothes, rain gear, etc., on catch lines below the pig, you can simply pull them up when you get to the bivi. That will leave more room inside for the heavy stuff.
Portaledges should be hung on catchlines, because they require 80% of the pig to be emptied before you can put them inside. Fish ledges come with their own special haul bag for that reason. Or you can leave the ledge assembled and flag it above the pig on the haul line.
A separate little piglet for your climbing gear is nice. Put that on a catchline, too.
Unless your second pig is light enough to pull up on a catchline from below the other one, hang them side by side. Take about ten feet of 8 or 9 mm perlon, tie a fig-8 in the middle and two fig-8 loops in the ends. Use that as a Y that you clip the bags and the docking tether lockers to. The bags will hang about 3 feet lower from the anchor, which is not a problem.
Also, shorten one of the haul bag straps (unless your bag already came like this, like Metolious bags do) by tying an overhand knot in it. Then tie six feet of 6 or 7 mm perlon to that strap with a fig-8 knot so that the two tails are the same length. Tie the tails into a munter hitch on the pig's locking biner, then wrap the tail ends in opposite directions a few times and then secure with a square knot. This is the Chongo Load Release Knot (like you use for docking the pig at the belay), and allows you to easily get into the bag when it's hanging. Metolious' website says to use a second carabiner to connect the shorter strap to the locker, but that requires lifting up half a pig to clip and unclip it. The Chongo Knot allows you to easily open and close the pig when it's hanging.
Put 1/2 of your water and canned food and other stuff you aren't going to need right away in the bottom, and leave it there. That way, the bottom half of the bag doesn't get repacked every morning.
Just toss your trash into the pig, and it will naturally work its way to the bottom. Wet/drippy and sticky/gooey trash should be put into small plastic bags first.
A closed-cell foam pad (ensolite) is the way to pad the haul bag. Put it in, mark it, cut it to fit exactly and then use duct-tape to permanently butt joint the edges. Don't pull it out and sleep on it, or you'll need to repack everything every day. Leave it in the haul bag. Get another pad if you want something to sleep on.
Make sure you don't leave any sharp edges or corners sticking out of the surface of the bag when you pack it, or they will rapidly turn into holes. The surface should be smooth and even. Put the lumpy stuff in the middle, and pack pile jackets and stuff like that around it as padding.
On a free-hanging haul with two pigs and two haul lines, make sure you pull one bag all the way up before the other one is lowered out, or the two ropes can get twisted around each other. A flagged portaledge can look like a wind turbine to updrafts, and rapidly spin the bags around and around and around. If they get twisted, you will need to simul-haul both bags, untwisting the ropes as you go. I didn't think that was much fun when I did it.
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brutusofwyde
Jul 12, 2003, 10:47 PM
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In reply to: If you are taking two pigs up a wall, you should consider using two haul lines. If you have enough stuff for two pigs, their combined weight may be too much without using a 2:1 or similar setup. It's easier to haul two lighter bags than to fight one heavy load up in one shot.
True. Usually I combine two pigs into one haul toward the top of the wall, when most of the weight is gone.
In reply to: Metolious' website says to use a second carabiner to connect the shorter strap to the locker, but that requires lifting up half a pig to clip and unclip it.
Not really that big a deal, even with a heavy pig, imho. My daughter can do it with one hand.
In reply to: A closed-cell foam pad (ensolite) is the way to pad the haul bag. Put it in, mark it, cut it to fit exactly and then use duct-tape to permanently butt joint the edges. Don't pull it out and sleep on it, or you'll need to repack everything every day. Leave it in the haul bag. Get another pad if you want something to sleep on.
For me it depends on the wall. But if you can afford the extra weight and room for a second pad, it is definitely the way to go. Often I use a very light pad (5mm, half length) for good weather, and can trot out the haul bag pad if things really get cold.
In reply to: On a free-hanging haul with two pigs and two haul lines, make sure you pull one bag all the way up before the other one is lowered out, or the two ropes can get twisted around each other.
conversely, if the pitch is less than vertical, the lower climber can release the second haul bag as soon as possible and get jugging. The bags will lay against the face and stay relatively tangle free.
Apollodorus,
Thanks for taking the time to thoroughly explain the systems. I don't seem to have the patience or mental acuity to do that these days.
[sits back in the rocking chair, exhausted]
Brutus
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simzboardr
Jul 13, 2003, 3:31 PM
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wow,...very usefull thanks. I was thinking about using two haul bags just to be a little more organized. They wouldnt' be packed very tight but one would be for stuff later on in the climb and the other, smaller, would be used to stuff extra ropes, water, food and other day stuff.
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apollodorus
Jul 13, 2003, 6:44 PM
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In reply to: wow,...very usefull thanks. I was thinking about using two haul bags just to be a little more organized. They wouldnt' be packed very tight but one would be for stuff later on in the climb and the other, smaller, would be used to stuff extra ropes, water, food and other day stuff.
That's EXACTLY the way to go up a wall. Having to do a Houdini repacking job each morning is not the best way to have fun. If you wind up with too much extra room in one of the pig, you can stick your sleeping bag in there, instead of fighting it into the impossibly tiny bag that came with it.
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simzboardr
Jul 14, 2003, 7:40 PM
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wow- i definatly thought i was gonna get ripped on for saying that. Thanks i guess i am gonna do that
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atg200
Jul 14, 2003, 8:06 PM
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i'll rip you. how hard is it to stay organized for a grade V that you will spend one night on? the hauling is good and steep so it won't really punish you, but bringing two pigs for the leaning tower is just kinda goofy.
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flamer
Jul 14, 2003, 9:01 PM
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Simz,
Seriously bro, if you need 2 bags you are taking way to much stuff for leaning tower. The approach and descent will be WAY more miserable!
I climbed Lurking fear this spring with one haul bag, and we put the port-a-ledge IN THE BAG!! I did the prow a few years ago with 3 people and we took one bag- and we did it without skimping on water food etc. It can be done bro! You will be happier if you carry less stuff!
josh
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simzboardr
Jul 16, 2003, 3:53 AM
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just cause im bringing the bags doesn't mean they are going to be full. In fact fairly empty. Im still debating but it would be nice to have to bags to transport the gear evenly to the traverse ledges on the WFLT. Who knows?!? but anyways im pumped as ...well really pumped. My first wall is next week. .... ohhhhh yeaaaa! Anyways climb on everyone and i'll get back to this post later
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antimatter
Jul 16, 2003, 5:38 AM
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In reply to: just cause im bringing the bags doesn't mean they are going to be full. In fact fairly empty. Im still debating but it would be nice to have to bags to transport the gear evenly to the traverse ledges on the WFLT. Who knows?!? but anyways im pumped as ...well really pumped. My first wall is next week. .... ohhhhh yeaaaa! Anyways climb on everyone and i'll get back to this post later
I just climbed that route Jul 2-5. My partner brought a comfy backpack for some of the load and then stashed the backpack at the base. Since he carried the rack in, we didn't have to mess much with re-packing the pig at the base. The descent from the climb is only uphill 100' from the base, grab your pack on the way down.
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flamer
Jul 16, 2003, 9:54 PM
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In reply to: I just climbed that route Jul 2-5. My partner brought a comfy backpack for some of the load and then stashed the backpack at the base. Since he carried the rack in, we didn't have to mess much with re-packing the pig at the base. The descent from the climb is only uphill 100' from the base, grab your pack on the way down.
Dude1 Antimatter has it right! THIS IS THE WAY TO DO IT!!
josh
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dsafanda
Jul 16, 2003, 10:12 PM
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Ditto.
Did this route a month ago. In addition to the haulbag we brought an expedition size backpack for the hike in so that my partner and I could share the load. That hike is so much fun. You'll love it. Leave the backpack at the base, shuttle your gear to the start of the climb and pick up your pack on the way down.
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iamthewallress
Jul 16, 2003, 11:01 PM
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I've hauled two very small bags (atom smasher) for a two day event like yours in tandem like hot dogs. Bivy stuff in the bottom back. Rations in the top. The reason: I don't own a big haulbag. The tandom linking minimized the bulk at the belay. I didn't need the stuff in the bottom bag while climbing anyway.
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simzboardr
Jul 19, 2003, 3:16 PM
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alright that pack thing sounds like it will work... 4 DAYS TO GO!!
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