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katydid
Jul 14, 2003, 12:35 PM
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On my first lead, I got bawled out by a couple of people for running out the top 15-20 feet of the climb (up to that point I'd been consciously trying to place pro every body length ... although since I placed about 8 pieces in 80 feet, I guess I didn't do that too well, either :roll:). Mind you, the route was so easy I could have soloed it and I'm not pushing myself on trad until my (much more experienced) partner gives me the Gear Placement Seal of Approval to do so, but I've noticed that already I have a tendency to run things out.
Which made me curious. Girls, do you sew it up or run it out? Or is it route dependent? (I have a feeling that if I were pushing myself physically as well as mentally, a lot more gear would be going in...)
k.
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Jul 14, 2003, 1:56 PM
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here's something to remember: if your running it out, make sure you're doing it because you feel confident doing so ... NOT because there are people around whom you're trying to impress.
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atg200
Jul 14, 2003, 2:07 PM
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yeah, and be very aware of what obstacles you'll hit if you pop. easy routes are in a lot of ways more dangerous than hard routes because there tend to be a lot more hazards and obstacles to bounce off. when you are just starting, it is a very good idea to not run things out very much.
placing every 8-10' is about right - every body length is usually excessive, especially if you are short. part of the art of trad is balancing the need for safe and adequate protection with conserving enough gear to do long pitches and build safe belays with the slim picking that are often left. but don't hesitate to fire in two pieces after a long runout, or place more often if there are things like ledges to hit, etc.
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Jul 14, 2003, 2:25 PM
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yeah ... what andrew said.
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angelaa
Jul 14, 2003, 3:30 PM
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HECK YEAH I RUN IT OUT!
Actually my nick name is RUN OUT QUEEN
Not that I try to.
We just got back from the black hills, and anyone who has ever been climbing trad out there knows that the pro is few and far between. :shock: The pro I place is good, and I only do it when I need it, but I still get a lot of crap for running it out!
I think it comes from climbing the Flatirons in Boulder a lot, running it out is norm there - if your even roped up! It is a great place to get comfortable just climbing through heady sections, and has really helped my climbing "head" when it comes to concentration.
My worst offence was my last trip to the Hills - we were climbing Spire 2 which is only a 5.3, but in a 185 ft pitch I only had 3 placements - our little joke is that a 5.2 takes 2 pieces, a 5.3 takes 3 pieces, a 5.4 takes 4 pieces :wink: etcetera. . .
As long as you are comfortable, and don't think of the ground fall potential you're good to go!~
When it doubt
Run it out!
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rockwomyn
Jul 14, 2003, 4:04 PM
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I guess it all depends.....when i have felt the moves were there and i was within my ability i will go 10 or 15 feet before placing, except near the deck. however, if i am shakey at all i sew it up. i always try to keep my head, even in areas i am confident. i try to place at least every body length. i would much rather take the rest and protect myself in case what lies ahead gives me the fear.
:D
Unfortunately...cause of my 7 days a week dedication to the work force, i have not been out in months....so these days i would probably have a 5.2 zipped from bottom to top.
:cry: somebody clone me so i can go climbing! :roll:
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 5:12 PM
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I am not sure why this is a woman-specific post, but yes, I run it out. I'm famous for my response to somebody on this site about run outs in Tuolumne, which is: "Get over it."
I personally climb almost like I am soloing it, which is why I haven't broken the 10 barrier in sport OR trad. That said, I place pro where it is very good or where I am VERY worried.
Rule of thumb for ME: I sew it up if I really want pieces in. I place prudently (which is a bit run out by most folk's standard) if I am flying up a route.
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dirtineye
Jul 14, 2003, 5:13 PM
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After your first ground fall, if you live through it, you'll place more gear.
Keep in mind that on a ten foot placement, if one blows, assuming you were about to place another piece when you fall, that's 40 feet of fall.
There was a post in injuries and accidents a while back, where a guy had 2 pices blow and he died. I think he hit his head on a ledge, not sure. There was another one where a girl in OZ fell off a crack that could have taken loads of gear, but she had two pop and hit bottm, winding up in the hospital for a long time. Goran krop had 5 pieces in 60 feet when he fell. First one blew, second snapped biner, third blew, he's dead.
Best advice I ever got about placing gear was, "Never pass up a bomber placement, you might not get another one."
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 5:20 PM
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Having been through a ground fall experience (I was belaying), I can't say that I'd place gear differently. That can happen when pieces are close together, too. It did to me.
Solid placements are what it's all about. If you've got a bomber placement 20 feet down and you've got another one and you're on a simple climb, you know your situation, and you know the ability of your pro.
Placing gear ever 8 feet is great, if the gear is good. Just because you have a bunch of pieces in doesn't mean you're not taking a whipper or a ground fall.
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 5:29 PM
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In reply to: Having been through a ground fall experience (I was belaying), I can't say that I'd place gear differently. That can happen when pieces are close together, too. It did to me. Solid placements are what it's all about. If you've got a bomber placement 20 feet down and you've got another one and you're on a simple climb, you know your situation, and you know the ability of your pro. Placing gear ever 8 feet is great, if the gear is good. Just because you have a bunch of pieces in doesn't mean you're not taking a whipper or a ground fall.
Also be aware of the type of rock you are climbing. In sandstone, it is usually recommended that you place pieces every body lenghth. A perfect cam placement that would hold a truck in granite can easily track out of a sandstone crack in a modest fall.
-Jay
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 5:35 PM
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Jay, very true. I think that anyone that learns to climb sandstone knows that just by climbing it in the first place. Another reason why I hate Mount Diablo!
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iamthewallress
Jul 14, 2003, 5:55 PM
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katydid...I get guff sometimes for not running it out more when I should be. There were a few climbs that I've wanted to do this season with mandatory run out face, so I was working on both my head and technique to be able to do so safely.
That said, I think I remember you posting something a very short while back about doing your first lead. I ran it out on one of my first multipitch climbs. I'll admit that in retrospect the climbing was definitely not something that I would describe as easy or something that I would free-solo. However, I wasn't ready yet to make a good call about what a potentially safe fall, and I didn't have the experience to see my fall coming and downclimb to avoid it. In the end I spent my first summer of traditional climbing on crutches and narrowly missed getting surgery. I don't mean to be unduely alarming, and I really don't know how solid of a climber you are. I'm just guessing that you were climbing with people who really care about you, and imagining if I was out with someone that I really cared about who was just getting started leading that I'd be after them to put in a lot of pro whether they really did need it or not.
Good luck, and I'm glad to hear that you're feeling confident and bold.
Here's a gross-out pic of my leg:
http://www.iamthewallress.com/smverygrossleg.JPG
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 6:26 PM
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Good lookin' bruising!
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jt512
Jul 14, 2003, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: Jay, very true. I think that anyone that learns to climb sandstone knows that just by climbing it in the first place. Another reason why I hate Mount Diablo!
I learned it the hard way.
-Jay
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 6:49 PM
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Eek
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katydid
Jul 14, 2003, 7:07 PM
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In reply to: I am not sure why this is a woman-specific post
Well, that would be because I'm curious how many women run it out. I don't know that many girl traddies. :mrgreen:
Personally, I find it ironic that I lean that way, since I'm one of those annoying belayers who's always asking their climber to put another piece in at their earliest convenience, please, and am generally pretty anal about As Much Safety As Possible. (Then again, if I didn't feel safe, I'm sure I'd have to worry about running out of GEAR rather than running out the climb.... :roll:)
k.
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maculated
Jul 14, 2003, 7:15 PM
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Katy,
Cool. Be careful. I used to run it out AND take crappy gear placements figuring something would hold if I had no other choice and learned the hard way.
If you choose to be 'old school' as my friend once said, make sure you're fully aware of the consequences.
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artm
Jul 14, 2003, 7:52 PM
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Apparently Melissa is too busy climbing to clean her room or do laundry.
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iamthewallress
Jul 14, 2003, 8:06 PM
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I think I was too busy laying on my back that week.
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Jul 15, 2003, 2:34 PM
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[quote:76bd1c5d8b="iamthewallress"]I think I was too busy laying on my back that week.[/quote:76bd1c5d8b]
gee ... i would have figured a bruise THAT bad would have been bad for business. :lol: :lol:
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missedyno
Jul 20, 2003, 3:08 AM
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i am now officially a dirt barbie.
apparently i run it out a bit too. if i'm really confident in the gear i'd much rather push through than stop and place if i don't see anything good.
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rock_diva
Jul 21, 2003, 2:51 AM
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I run it out... but I also have only lead trad routes that are well within my abilities. I've only really felt gripped leading trad on a couple of occasions. I didn't sew it up then, just made sure I had good placements at regular intervals.
I like to run it out doing routes in the Superstition Mountains (Phoenix) and in Joshua Tree :)
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mreardon
Jul 21, 2003, 11:21 PM
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Watched a girl last week use about 4 pieces in 60 feet on solid 10+ at the Needles. Only run where you feel confident.
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crazygirl
Sep 11, 2003, 5:45 PM
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I run it out on easy sections, and sew it up when i'm actually afraid to take a fall. I mean it's all relative - if i just finished a 5.9 crux section, and gotten to the 5.5 section of the climb, then i'll run it out. In an easy section i climb faster and sometimes don't even notice that i went 20 feet without pro.
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