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wing_cutter
Jul 11, 2003, 2:42 PM
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Hello all,
I have been climbing indoors for a few months now and can climb most 10a's. However my girlfriend who has more climbing experience than I has trouble finishing many 5.8's and has only ever done 1 or 2 5.9's. Here is the interesting point to this.... I am 6 foot 3 and she is 5 foot 3 (with little arms! and legs!) and so I try to tell her that the "cards" are a bit stacked against her because of her hieght. She isn't buying that and blames her climbing abilities. Granted we both can improve/strengthen our climbing and bodies much more but I can see many times that she is just inches away from a good hold that would be a piece of cake for 75% of climbers.
And when I am climbing I know that my height allows me to reach many holds that for anyone under 6 feet would would require jumping or moving through a tougher sequence of moves. (although sometimes my long legs get in the way in tight areas.. I feel I have a bit of an advantage)
Anyhow, I was hoping I could get some perspective on this from experienced climbers of different heights. Any thoughts on this matter?
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jumpingrock
Jul 11, 2003, 2:47 PM
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Check the hieght of the gym route setters. I am betting that they are all over 6 ft males. If you had a good 5 ft female set a 5.10 route I bet it would kick your ass and your gf would have much less trouble with it. Go outdoors where the routes are not made by/for tall ppl. She will feel much better out there.
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leaverbiner
Jul 11, 2003, 3:11 PM
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Height, or lack thereof, can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. However, when you are climbing at the level you described, and/or just starting out, not to mention in the gym, added height will more than likely be an advantage . . . just tell you girlfriend to stick with it, as she gets stronger and progresses through the grades, she will soon start to find routes/problems where her stature will actually be an advantage.
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snowrocker
Jul 11, 2003, 3:12 PM
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What she lacks in height it will be made up for in the # of holds she can use for instance what seems like a crimper to you, she might be able to dyno off of, I agree with jumping rock definitely head outside, there she will kick your butt, i know my 10 year old brother can toprope most 9's and a few tens and hes somewhere around 4'5
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dingus
Jul 11, 2003, 3:15 PM
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Here is the best advice I can think of...
Buy her Lynn Hill's autoboigraphy. Lynn is about the same height if not shorter and she offers a lot of insight that us tall guys simply cannot duplicate.
Cheers,
DMT
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jman
Jul 11, 2003, 3:22 PM
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I'd say reminder her or let her know that Lisa Rands is barely 5'4" and Lynn hill is about 5'3"
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angelaa
Jul 11, 2003, 3:26 PM
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don't encourage her to use her height as a crutch!
If you ever plan on climbing outside, it is irrelevant how tall or short someone is. There are always going to be intermediate holds (on routes rated 8 or 9 and even 10's) outside that can make any route doable for nearly any size person.
I am 5'10" and have a friend who is 5'2" - until recently she would always say "I can't do that climb I am too short" - but now with her increased self confidence and her growing skill level she can climb stuff that our 6 foot friends can climb!
If you plan on only climbing inside, encourage her to work on her flexibility, and stretching.
Also you may want to work on climbs set my a shorter route setter.
I tend to think that if there are routes on your wall that are difficult only because they are reachy you need to discuss that with the route setters & ask them to set hard routes that short people can climb too!
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ptone
Jul 11, 2003, 4:12 PM
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I'm a tad under 6', but climb alot with a couple friends, one's 5'2 and one is 5'. In my gym there is only one guy who tends to set really reachy routes, and he is only 5'7 or 8. He's just really strong. (His problems also tend to include crazy side to side swings to reach foot nibs, and obligatory barndoors on side crimps to pancake slopes...)
There are lots of places I reach more easily, and lots of places I wish I was shorter. I hear lots of climbers (mainly new) complain about the height issue, but the best climbers in the world tend to be 5'8 avg, not 6'+ (there are exceptions, of course...)
I agree with angel. Get her on some sit starts where she can move thru it without a thought, but you get spanked everytime.
It'll be good for both of you!
:D
-p
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jabtocrag
Jul 11, 2003, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: don't encourage her to use her height as a crutch! If you ever plan on climbing outside, it is irrelevant how tall or short someone is. There are always going to be intermediate holds (on routes rated 8 or 9 and even 10's) outside that can make any route doable for nearly any size person. I am 5'10" and have a friend who is 5'2" - until recently she would always say "I can't do that climb I am too short" - but now with her increased self confidence and her growing skill level she can climb stuff that our 6 foot friends can climb! If you plan on only climbing inside, encourage her to work on her flexibility, and stretching. Also you may want to work on climbs set my a shorter route setter. I tend to think that if there are routes on your wall that are difficult only because they are reachy you need to discuss that with the route setters & ask them to set hard routes that short people can climb too!
Agreed on all points...my gym route setter claims to set most routes (especially on 5.10s and below) so that he can reach each successor hold with his elbow. He's somewhere around 6' in height and climbs 5.14 (which speaks to the skill aspect...tell her to concentrate on increasing her skill and learning to climb at her height, as she can't change that), but it does make it that height will not prevent someone from climbing most his sets.
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gthornberg
Jul 11, 2003, 4:57 PM
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Your gym's route setters are probably tall. There are definite advantes to being a shorter climber. Take scrunchy moves--taller people tend to pull away from the wall when scrunched (illustration below)
http://www.4penny.net/greg/taller.gif
Whereas short climber are able to stay below the hold and more directly place their weight in a downward direction avoiding their fingers popping off the holds (Illustration below)
http://www.4penny.net/greg/shorter.gif
Being short can be an advantage for sloping holds. One guy I knew, Jesse Schalk, could do the most incredible boldering moves off sloping holds. Because I started to high on his sit start problems using sloping first holds, I often wasn't able to start the problem. Like shorter people whining about my long reach, I griped about those able to do Jesse's routes.
GT
a tall climber
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jabtocrag
Jul 11, 2003, 5:07 PM
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Cool illustrations, man :)
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westcoastvert
Jul 11, 2003, 5:17 PM
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definitely get on the route setters in your gym. Often times they get lazy and don't think through all the moves for shorter people. If they just threw in an intermediate or a tiny foot hold, it would better replicate outdoor climbing.
My girlfriend is about 5'4" and she's made up for her lack of hieght by kicking ass in her footwork. She can smear like a gecho and she edges on dimes. Many gyms simply don't have the features that the wonderful world of real rock will offer.
Most important... Push your personal limits... don't try to live up to someone elses...
Girlfriends who climb are GREAT!
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gthornberg
Jul 11, 2003, 5:31 PM
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westcoastvert , I totally agree with your intermediate holds comment. Lynn Hill complained that the early Snowbird comps didn't include intermediate holds giving her the unfair disadvantage.
With more and more gyms being created with texture, this is becoming less of an issue. If gyms don't have textured walls, simple screw-in nub-sized holds would cost little and go a far way towards simulating actual rock routes.
GT
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sharpender
Jul 11, 2003, 6:32 PM
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In reply to: Here is the best advice I can think of... Buy her Lynn Hill's autoboigraphy. Lynn is about the same height if not shorter and she offers a lot of insight that us tall guys simply cannot duplicate.
I agree. It ain't basketball and Lynn proved years ago that height means nothing. She's climbed all the hard stuff. Your girlfriend gets this and you'll be keeping up with her.
Enjoy.
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wing_cutter
Jul 11, 2003, 6:49 PM
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Thanks everyone for your input! I am sure it will help out a lot. I actually went to the bookstore on my lunch break but the Lynn Hill book was not there.... I quess it is amazon.com time :roll: I was on the net reading up on her and yes she is pretty amazing. THis will help my girlfriend I am sure.
I really can't wait till we are in good shape and confident enough to hit the outdoors. Anyhow.... thanks again!
WIng
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jt512
Jul 11, 2003, 6:57 PM
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Height is a factor both indoors and out, but it is more limiting indoors, since the only holds are the only holds, so to speak. Not so outdoors, where the rock is more featured than the walls of a gym.
-Jay
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dano
Jul 11, 2003, 10:14 PM
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Take your girlfriend to the bouldering - she'll kick your a__ on the sitstarts and give you something to work on. or maybe that's just me and MY girlfriend that this happens to?
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alpinerock
Jul 11, 2003, 10:17 PM
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In reply to: Girlfriends who climb are GREAT!
Girlfriends who don't are usless :D
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jman
Jul 11, 2003, 10:25 PM
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You could also suggest that the route setters in your gym modify their ways a bit. The primary route setter in the gym I climb at is about 5'10", has an increadible wing span, and has lead 5.14's...he's realized his reach is somewhat more than most, so when he sets routes he makes sure that he can touch the next hold with his elbow.
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emerald
Jul 11, 2003, 11:26 PM
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I'm 5'1" and at times I feel I'm at a disadvantage because of my height. Some routes do require a long reach with an arm or a leg, while others require skill. I've only been climbing for a few months now, but I have noticed smaller is better! :D I have super tiny hands and feet, which makes it easier to hold onto crimpers and pockets, but slopers kill me. Anyway...instead of telling your g/f she has a disadvantage and instead of her looking at the glass to be half empty, you both should realize that everybody has their strengths and weaknesses. She has an advantage over you for being able to grab on to tiny things (your dick), while you have an advantage over her for grabbing onto larger things (her boobies). Hell, why not stop climbing and get laid! :P That's my opinion, believe me, sex is better than climbing! Thx!
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aklor
Jul 15, 2003, 5:16 AM
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I'm also one of those short female climbers... and the people setting the routes at the gym are tall males... just one of those things you get over and if anything makes you a climber who can solve more difficult problems cause you don't just reach over to the next hold
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climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 5:30 AM
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In reply to: I'm also one of those short female climbers... and the people setting the routes at the gym are tall males... just one of those things you get over and if anything makes you a climber who can solve more difficult problems cause you don't just reach over to the next hold |
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tonyeatworld
Jul 15, 2003, 5:32 AM
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You should take this opportunity to do two things. First, spray on RC.com about how you are a much superior climber than your girlfriend. Secondly, break up with her, cause otherwise the rest of us are going to have to read about how she is only holding you back and then there will just be a nasty break up where the lawyers come in to divy up the gear of who gets the draws and who gets the ropes and what about the children? Please somebody think of the children! .... So its really just better to get it over with now
In all seriousness though quit patronizing your girlfriend. Height really doesn't seem to mean that much in the long run. You don't have to say anything to make her feel better that you are doing better than her right now. It could be many things including your height. Maybe she isn't one of the people who can suddenly climb 5.12's after two months(although by reading some of the posts on here you would think that everybody does). My friend Nikki is about the same height as your gf(maybe shorter) and I am about 6'7". Nikki can climb circles around me even though I can occasionally reach past some of the harder moves. My lanky ass usually equates to less balance, also Nikki is more skilled at climbing and footwork.
Okay so do I have a point? Uh, I guess I would say to learn all your safety stuff and hit some real rock cause that is when the fun really begins. Also just encourage your gf to have fun cause its not a competition. If she gets frustrated its ok we all get frustrated, but don't make up excuses for her.
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climbsomething
Jul 15, 2003, 5:36 AM
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A few unfair advantages in climbing
by Hillary
*being tall
*being short
*having big hands
*having small hands
*being light
*being heavy
*being named Chris
:mrgreen:
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apollodorus
Jul 15, 2003, 5:56 AM
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Beth Rodden is also pretty tiny, but a world-class 'scendix. A climber's body is like a sports car: the power to weight ratio is what matters, not how big it is.
The gym is probably the worst place for comparing rockclimbing ability. The holds are placed arbitrarily, and yes, a very tall setter is naturally going to tailor the climbs to his stature.
Get your friend out onto some real rock, and she might just demote you to belay monkey.
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