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nzoggle
Jan 23, 2002, 3:16 AM
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i find it funny when people spray about climbing 5.13 or v11 or watever indoors, when they cant smack out a 5.10 on real rock..
i always though that plastic was for training only and gradings meant nothing,
at my gym they only have three grades easy med and hard..
is this the same view every1 shares or do pastic pullers get some respect???
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jono13
Jan 23, 2002, 3:20 AM
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ya, i kinda agree. people who can crank 13's on plastic deserve some respect, but i think when it comes to outdoors, if they can only climb 5.10, thats ok, but their not as good as they are cracked up to be.
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pianomahnn
Jan 23, 2002, 3:37 AM
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If they climb, respect them for climbing. Don't get all elitest because you do something other's do not. SOME people, myself included, don't have the option to climb rock. I have to hit the gym 99% of the time I climb. Central IL isn't know for it's wonderful rock formations.
If they start getting all punkish and cocky, then cut them down. But dont come down on someone for just doing something they enjoy. That's low and pathetic.
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euphoricclimbing
Jan 23, 2002, 3:47 AM
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Climbing on plastic is comparable to having sex with a plastic rubber doll. Yeah, you get your jollies off, but it is not the real thing. Climbers have always told me that climbing at a gym is for training, so you can climb better on real rock. However, if people don't feel safe about outdoor climbing and want to stay in the gym, then let him. Let the gyms get crowded with number-chasing climbers, who argue about grades and difficulty; let the outdoor scene be filled with climbers that are about the whole experience of being outdoors and respecting the environment.
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passthepitonspete
Jan 23, 2002, 3:54 AM
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Gym climbing is like kissing your mom.
It's nice, but it don't mean nothin'.
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bigwalling
Jan 23, 2002, 3:57 AM
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Well climbing real rock in my opinion is alot harder. Real rock is also alot more fun. I can't climb no 5.13 anywhere but if I did I would sure want it not to be on plastic. When I went from gym to real rock I was so happy to get out of the gym. I haven't been in a gym for two years. I just got sick of it. I don't like to spent all my time indoors it's no fun.
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pianomahnn
Jan 23, 2002, 4:15 AM
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It means what you want it to mean. Different strokes to move the world.
I feel this thread turning into something comparable to a trad vs sport climbing debate.
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addiroids
Jan 23, 2002, 4:21 AM
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"Sport climbing" is neither.
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pianomahnn
Jan 23, 2002, 4:39 AM
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Niether lame or stupid. I know.
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ximiana
Jan 23, 2002, 5:16 AM
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i think that climb natural rock is the best, but when u cant go out, gym is perfect, the grade isn't the same...but,
the grade is in ur mind, i think, that gym is for get force and technic, and ROCK is the best.
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sonofspork
Jan 23, 2002, 5:29 AM
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I would have to agree with pianoman. Some of us don't have great crags 20 minutes away from our house and the gym is all we have. We make our way out there every few weeks or months and make the best out of what we got. Don't be a jackass.
-sONofSpORk
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darkside
Jan 23, 2002, 5:44 AM
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Ahh not a trad Vs sport debate!! How about plastic Vs trad....nah, that whole debate goes nowhere. If it's humourous then carry on but seeing as it's all climbing....well no point really.
One point to make: someone who does it all, multi-discipline will outclimb those who don't, and probably have more fun.
P.S. I don't pull on plastic these days and now I suck; but plastic ice is so much more fun.
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wandt
Jan 23, 2002, 7:09 AM
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I'm going to assume the role of the ever-unpopular and scorned party here, as I always seem to do.
Plastic has nice ergonomic shapes, a controlled, comfortable climate, plenty of tunes, few or no insects, a convenient location, clean restrooms, cold drinks and hot girls. What's wrong with going to the gym and cranking hard? Maybe "roughing it" is not your bag. I dislike insects and am not a big fan of sunburns. When I lead, I find it reassuring to know that there's a padded floor beneath me as opposed to a punji tiger trap, or thousands of metres of air. My tips last WAY longer on purpose-shaped holds than they do on those sharp, rough crimpers outside. I can set routes at the gym without being lynched for chipping holds! Not only is the pizza place on speed dial, but if I tell them I'm at the climbing gym, I get a HUGE discount! The snobby bastards won't even deliver to the bottom of the real crags! The topropes are already set-up, allowing for more time to be spent climbing. I don't need to blow money on a rack that can really only be used on sunny days on specific routes with a super-competent partner. There's no way I'm going to let my brother belay me on lead.
Know what the best thing about the gym is? You rarely, if EVER, have to put up with those damned snot-nosed traddies always poo-pooing you because you don't like trad.
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jcs
Jan 23, 2002, 7:23 AM
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Hey!
Inside climbing is, by its nature, an attempt to copy the real thing- climbing on actual rocks! The greatest boulder problems and routes have a history, and doing them means something to the individual and the climbing world in general (like Action Direct, Biographie, To Bolt or Not to Be, Astroman, and tons of others... not to mention each areas local classics). If someone has done a classic boulder problem or route, they are going to remember it for ever, and they can always go back and do it again. Chances are it will mean a lot to them, and otehr climbiers will recognize that accomplishment. Who is going to remember "that green taped v5 in the cave" a year or two from now? Are the climbing mags going to come in and cover the local hardmans FA of the cool blue 5.13 on the EP wall? Nope. So, in that sense gym routes dont count.
That said- I still like climbing in the gym. I DO feel a sense of accomplishment when I red point a gym route that I have been working on, because it was hard and I had to improve in strength and skill to be able to finish it. I have climbed some gym routes that are really challenging and enjoyable- with beautiful, thoughtful, smooth moves on them (well, as smooth as I make them!). The gym climb might not have a history, or the feeling of being part of nature, but it does provide a personal sense of accomplishment for me- and for me that is a lot of what climbing is all about.
I dislike this whole tendency we have to divide climbers into different camps and then decide who the "real climbers" are. As this applies to gym climbing, it seems to me that the current attitude among climbers says that I am allowed to climb in a gym as long as it is just for training and not for fun. That seems like the wrong attitude to me. Truth is that I DO live near real rocks (45 min. from Van to Squamish)- lots of them, and sometimes I just like the convenience of the local gym. For one I usually get lots more actual climbing done inside than I do on the rock, unless I am bouldering- then it is about the same. Climbing is fun, and gym climbing is fun too.
[ This Message was edited by: jcs on 2002-01-22 23:28 ]
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socialclimber
Jan 23, 2002, 9:33 AM
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This is bollocks! As long as you are climbing the way you want to do it, who cares what any body else is doing?
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pianomahnn
Jan 23, 2002, 4:09 PM
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Well, you'd think that it wouldn't matter, but as history goes to show, people are very concerned at what everyone else is climbing, and wether or not they're better than them.
Better than them refering to what sort of climbing they do, not particular grades.
[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2002-01-23 08:10 ]
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dynomaster
Jan 23, 2002, 4:27 PM
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Hey Everyone!
Wether or not a route counts is up to you. Personally, I definately think plastic counts, as I live in Miami, and as you may or may not know- THERE IS NO REAL ROCK HERE, which sucks for me, ald leaves me to climb plastic only. As I see it, there's no reason to dis styles or people, or catagorize people. One good thing about climbing is there are no official rules- people climb the way they want. If you guys think plastic dosent count, then i wouldn't really be called a climber. Yet I call myself a climber. Just some thoughts.
Climb Smart
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sheppe
Jan 23, 2002, 4:51 PM
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I personally prefer outdoor climbing, as I don't have to deal with a gym full of grubby-handed kids, crowded climbing areas, and no view. But, I don't have the option of climbing outdoors year-round, as I live in Canada and we get snow up here. What am I left with? The gym. I don't get the satisfaction that I do when I ascend a route outdoors, but hey, at least I'm climbing something!
As to the original question of this post - my feeling is that indoor climbing counts, but it depends on how your gym rates climbs. I've been in gyms that have a 5.9 rated as 5.10+, but the gym I regular usually under-rates their climbs, so....
-Sheppe
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rck_climber
Jan 23, 2002, 4:53 PM
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I will never cut on someone for climbing in their own way; whether it's bouldering, sport, trad, indoors, outdoors - doesn't matter to me.
What I DO have a problem with is people who spray relentlessly, indoors or out, but especially indoors. While I don't discount climbing indoors, I do discount indoor ratings as I find them far more subjective than outdoor ratings.
Just my thoughts though.
Mick
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daggerx
Jan 24, 2002, 2:19 AM
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Climbing is climbing
dont matter if its on plastic at the gym , real rock or up the side of a cheminy.
the only differance is climbing outside is 10,000 times harder then inside
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512
Jan 24, 2002, 5:59 AM
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ratings are off anyway! It all depends on who climbs it names it and rates it! I climbed an 11c outside but can barely pull em in my gym! It doesnt matter what you climb as long as you climb!
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davyk46
Jan 24, 2002, 4:41 PM
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Climbing indoors isn't the same as on a real rock. People that say they can climb a 5.13a on a wall is full of ____. There is only a certain few who can climb that good and if they can they will be making some money at this sport. I really wish i could and I do feel that it should only be for training purpose. The name of this sport is "ROCK"climbing, not wallclimbing.
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