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fishypete
Jul 16, 2003, 11:50 AM
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In reply to: Ed is right. It's a Grade VI wall not a class6 wall. I can only assume that quote that refers to "sixth class" is a mistake due to terminology getting cofused by Euros that wrote the article on onsight.com. It's strange though...even in the article "sixth class" is presented in quotations. I guess it could be an expression I've never heard of. Doesn't really make sense.
It seems that 6th class isn't the only thing you have missed, try also onsight.com.au
Where are the supposedly confused Euro's? Try Australians! (although they can also be confused at times....it is often beer related.)
Frickin Merricans...if it aint US, it must be Euro.
Cheers
Fishy.
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rockprodigy
Jul 16, 2003, 3:23 PM
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OK, now that we've disected the definitions of "class" and "grade", are we ready to move on to the question?
I think there climb is very impressive, but should not be considered THE record. Zodiac is 16 pitches in the Supertopo Book, vs. 32 for the Nose...it's just a lot more rock. Furthermore, with all the fixed gear on Zodiac, it makes the route much faster. I figure the only reason it hasn't been done faster before is that other climbers lacked the skill to free between the fixed gear, so they were slowed by making placements.
Isn't this speed climbing stuff just SO interesting!?
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epic_ed
Jul 16, 2003, 3:30 PM
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In reply to: Where are the supposedly confused Euro's? Try Australians! (although they can also be confused at times....it is often beer related.) Frickin Merricans...if it aint US, it must be Euro. Cheers Fishy.
Hey, we could always just "blame Canada!"
As to the question -- heck, they can call it whatever they want. It's the new speed record for getting up any grade VI on El Cap. I don't think this is a comparison of the Nose vs. Zodiac. More a matter of "you pick any grade VI on El Cap and see how fast you can ascend it." Prior to the Huber's effort, the fastest anyone had climb a grade VI of any sort on El Cap was Yuji and Hans's record on the Nose. Now the fastest is the Huber's on Zodiac.
Ed
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coyoteblues
Jul 17, 2003, 2:07 AM
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Re: the original question, when you are talkin' speed, the length of the race matters. Marathons are all the same length. Some courses are considered faster than others (Chicago, for example), but you still gotta go the same distance. If the Hubers (or whoever is writing about them) wants to write the rules to say the race is about any route considered a grade VI, so be it. (But it does remind me a little of the "who freed the Salathe first" arguement.)
But look at any picture of El Cap. Where do your eye come to rest? What is it that stands out? There's no denying the Nose route is the one that runs up the prominent line. Do you think Harding couldn't have found a shorter way up El Cap? No matter what happens, I think the Nose is always gonna have a special standing.
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passthepitonspete
Jul 23, 2003, 4:32 PM
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Q: What do you get when you cross a Sport Climbing Muffin with a BWT?
A: I'm not sure, except I know she has a nice arse.
As for my alleged Grade VII-style ascents of Grade VI routes, I have climbed El Cap in a day, you know...... Hmph.
[I rather thought my seven-day solo of Lost In America could be considered "fast" too, when you take into account that I never started climbing before noon, and never climbed in the dark. Hmmm, let's see, if I had climbed with a partner, then that would have cut the time in half.... and had I actually climbed a full day..... well, the mind boggles. Perhaps a three-day ascent? At least in theory.....]
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timstich
Jul 25, 2003, 7:55 PM
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Just saw John Shannon's slide show last night and it featured a three man team Zodiac climb. Sometime around 1 AM or so, John takes a 40 footer on lead. This produces a blood curdling scream of immense proportions, that of course every other party on the wall can hear. One by one, headlamps light up and gaze skyward, downward, and to the side. "Everything OK?" comes the easily heard questions aided by the good wall acoustics. John is fine. "But do we really need to lead pitches at night?" asks John of his partners. They decide to start calling John "Vajohna."
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iamthewallress
Jul 25, 2003, 9:28 PM
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Your sexist humor is really freakin' cracking me up today. Regale me with some racial slurs now too, please. I can't get enough of those.
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belayon
Jul 26, 2003, 12:28 AM
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To confuse thing even more.......
1) The Huber's used the direct start on zodiac. So it's not even the true Zodiac record. (Still kicks @#$)
2) Thomas said that the Nose was a much harder route, at least logistically. Pendulums, length etc.. He said it may take an entire month to workout the details. We may find out in October.
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timstich
Jul 27, 2003, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: Your sexist humor is really freakin' cracking me up today. Regale me with some racial slurs now too, please. I can't get enough of those.
Funny, it wasn't my story and I didn't make up the nickname. Perhaps you would like to complain to John Shannon? He told this tale in front of his girlfriend and an audience of about twenty five people, some of them children!
Consider the place where this (lack of) humor was spawned. There they were days into one of the most intimidating big wall routes on the biggest wall in Yosemite, El Cap. Never been on it myself, but it looks like you can get lost there. Lost in non PC kinds of thoughts and expressions. Sure, I could have edited that comment, but honestly, it never occurred to me to censor someone else's story.
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apollodorus
Jul 27, 2003, 6:16 AM
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In reply to: If you use your logic of using any parties time to determine the grade, everything ptpp has ever done is a Mt Asgard style grade VII.
JFTR: PTPP and I did a Grade VIII wall recently, Bermuda Dunes on El Cap. We were hoping to make a bid for America's first Grade X wall, but ran out of whiskey at the Alcove, and had to make a mad dash for the top to get down to the store.
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passthepitonspete
Jul 27, 2003, 2:23 PM
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It's only "whiskey" with an "e" because it was Kentucky whiskey. Rye whisky [which you Merricans call "Canadian whiskey"] and Scotch whisky have no "e". Ditto for Irish, I believe.
And Tom drank it all, or damn near all of it.
Bastard.
But I got the rest of the beer for compensation..... {wink}
And yeah, the Hubers have the new El Cap Record. Hell, yeah.
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euroford
Jul 27, 2003, 3:04 PM
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wow, el cap really is the ultimate big wall climbing gym.
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passthepitonspete
Jul 27, 2003, 8:21 PM
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It's still a bit harder to die in a climbing gym, though.....
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coyoteblues
Jul 28, 2003, 3:57 AM
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Hmm..., El Cap West Face, 5.11d, and, according to Reid, grade VI.
Tell me a couple of rock jocks can't set the "new El Cap speed climbing record" on that one. Nose, Zodiac, and West Face. Apples, oranges, and pears. Not much point in the comparison.
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iamthewallress
Jul 28, 2003, 5:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Your sexist humor is really freakin' cracking me up today. Regale me with some racial slurs now too, please. I can't get enough of those. Funny, it wasn't my story and I didn't make up the nickname. Perhaps you would like to complain to John Shannon? He told this tale in front of his girlfriend and an audience of about twenty five people, some of them children!
But you repeated the story here. All the fact that he told the story to women and children without getting rotten fruit thrown at him tells me is that we've all heard slurs like "pusssy" and "sissy" meant to indicate weakness or cowardess a million times and know that we will be accused of being humorless feminazis by some if we admit that it's totally offensive in any context.
I've been on El Cap, and know that it's stressful. Somehow my partner was able to manage the stress and avoid calling me offensive names. If for some reason, he'd have gone apesh!t and started making puns out of ethnic slurs, for example, I doubt that I would make a joke out of it in front of a crowd full of people who would have every right and reason to be offended.
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flamer
Jul 28, 2003, 7:41 PM
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MELISSA!!!
LIGHTEN UP!!!
It's not that big of a deal!
Besides by makling it a big deal you are just validating that whole "don't be a girl" mentality!
Seriously, chill!
josh
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epic_ed
Jul 28, 2003, 7:46 PM
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Uh-oh.
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iamthewallress
Jul 28, 2003, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: MELISSA!!! LIGHTEN UP!!! It's not that big of a deal! Besides by makling it a big deal you are just validating that whole "don't be a girl" mentality! Seriously, chill! josh
Thank you for illustrating my point so clearly.
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timstich
Jul 29, 2003, 3:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Your sexist humor is really freakin' cracking me up today. Regale me with some racial slurs now too, please. I can't get enough of those. Funny, it wasn't my story and I didn't make up the nickname. Perhaps you would like to complain to John Shannon? He told this tale in front of his girlfriend and an audience of about twenty five people, some of them children! But you repeated the story here. All the fact that he told the story to women and children without getting rotten fruit thrown at him tells me is that we've all heard slurs like "pusssy" and "sissy" meant to indicate weakness or cowardess a million times and know that we will be accused of being humorless feminazis by some if we admit that it's totally offensive in any context. I've been on El Cap, and know that it's stressful. Somehow my partner was able to manage the stress and avoid calling me offensive names. If for some reason, he'd have gone apesh!t and started making puns out of ethnic slurs, for example, I doubt that I would make a joke out of it in front of a crowd full of people who would have every right and reason to be offended.
So you didn't like those Shannonigans, then? Alas.
But point taken on the gender specific language to denote cowardice. I don't use it myself. I prefer the terms "wuss" and "whiney baby." My old pal Joe Ivy developed the idea of the wimp gland. Both sexes had it and both had to deal with it. Also, both sexes could experience sphincter constriction, unless the actual a-hole was removed via colostomy type situation. Cancer ass, you know.
As for getting abuse from your comrades, I must admit that I only let certain friends do this. Joe was one and he knew what tone of voice to take that let me know he was kidding. His insults of "doucebag!" were as pleasant sounding as any greetings I ever heard from a friend. "Moron" is a more common one overheard as is "dope." Call your friends that sometime with a wry smile and a goofy accent. If done correctly, it can be a fun game that you'll relish. It takes great trust in the friend to do it. When Joe was ready to tear you a new one and was actually serious, he stopped all of the insults and assumed a different tone of voice. You knew the change.
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iamthewallress
Jul 29, 2003, 4:54 PM
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:wink: Thanks!
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lambone
Jul 29, 2003, 8:16 PM
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Lets stick to talking about crazy shit on El Cap and keep the personal banter privet, eh...
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passthepitonspete
Jul 29, 2003, 8:53 PM
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I concur.
Note that the West Face of El Cap is recognized as a Grade V free climb now, and is no longer considered Grade VI. If you check Hans' website, you'll see it's been climbed pretty fast, much faster than the old record on The Nose.
But it doesn't "make the cut" since it's not a Grade VI.
Anyway, Alex and Thomas have the record, at least this week.
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hasbeen
Jul 29, 2003, 8:54 PM
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Don't know if this is even on topic anymore but Hans n' someone (maybe Schneider) did the West Face in 1h 51m.
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passthepitonspete
Jul 29, 2003, 8:57 PM
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Check.
But this was never recognized as "The Speed Record" on El Cap since it's a Grade V and not a VI.
Hubers' achievement is much more bitchin'.
I should know - I watched them do it while drinking coffee in my ledge. They climbed two pitches in less time than it took me to drink one cup!
Sheesh.
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flamer
Jul 29, 2003, 9:13 PM
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Those 2 are pretty damn bad ass, While in the valley we started calling them the "Uber" brothers. nice guys too...
josh
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