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climbingbum
Jul 14, 2003, 3:36 PM
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I climbed a multipitch 5.8 alpine climb yesterday. Many of the pitches were rope-stretchers with roughly 3 pieces of moderate-to-sh!tty pro per length. Granted it was an easy climb, I still consider it runout in spots. The topo made no reference to the unprotectable nature of the climb. On the other hand, I have friends that consider 10 feet between bolts as a "scary runout". When do you feel a pitch is run?
-J
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evoltobmilc
Jul 14, 2003, 3:44 PM
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If I can't clip one of my two single length runners on my harness to a bolt at all times it's runout.
NOT!!
First Flatiron is runout- 60m pitches with 2 or 3 placements possible. Really though, it depends on the area, the type of climbing, and the difficulty. the First is slab, and not too tough, on the other hand a route I did the other day was vertical pseudo-crack, and I was 12 feet above my last nut when I got my next piece in. My buddy commented, "nice lead- sorta runout there, eh?" It was.
The situation I describe above exists! NEXT TO TWO (2) CRACKS!!!! That gets me more than anything I've ever seen before. Oh, in case you were wondering, I've never been back to Shelf Road since that day when I climbed the gorgeous protectible crack with bolts every 40 inches next to it. Makes me sick.
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kevlar
Jul 14, 2003, 4:02 PM
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6" more than you would like to fall? :D
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alpinestylist
Jul 14, 2003, 4:19 PM
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anytime the corner is twisted off my baggy I have definetly
"run out"
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kyhangdog
Jul 14, 2003, 4:31 PM
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If I'm getting sketched...it's run-out!
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apollodorus
Jul 14, 2003, 4:56 PM
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Usually, guidebooks call it runout if there is 40 feet, or so, between pieces at one or more sections.
If the going is easy, even a full rope doesn't feel runout. It feels like class 4 scrambling.
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tradmanclimbs
Jul 14, 2003, 4:58 PM
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It totaly depends on the type of and dificulty of the climbing as well as how clean the falls are. A 10 foot runout over a nasty ankle breaker ledge wit hard thin moves is more run out than 40ft of easy slab or 20 ft of overhanging juggy face with a clean fall.
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fanederhand
Jul 14, 2003, 5:13 PM
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I don't think that difficulty has anything to do with it. It is a simple factor of fall potential. If you cant place gear and you have a long fall. That is a larger fall potential. Simply put the larger the fall potential the more it is run out. If you fall and hit the rock, wether it be the ground or a belay ledge it does not matter if the route was 5.3 or 5.10. If you cant set pro to protect from a fall that has potential to cause an impact on the rock then it is run out. Actually run out starts from the point you go past your pro. We don't start calling it run out until the fall potential becomes a potential for harm. Once again, fall potential not how hard the route is.
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trillium
Jul 14, 2003, 5:31 PM
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John Long states simply, runout is the distance between two points of protection.
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fredbob
Jul 14, 2003, 5:34 PM
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In reply to: I don't think that difficulty has anything to do with it. It is a simple factor of fall potential. ..... Once again, fall potential not how hard the route is.
If a route is rated 11a and the crux is reasonably well protected, but it has a section of 5.4 that is run out for 30 feet (or even more), is the route run out? Certainly not, and it would not get an R rating in a guidebook either. So difficulty does have something to do with it; but it is the relative difficulty of the run out section to the difficulty of the route.
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sspssp
Jul 14, 2003, 6:17 PM
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In reply to: I climbed a multipitch 5.8 alpine climb yesterday. -J
Alpine climb about says it all. Four decent pieces of gear per alpine pitch is about the most I expect. When considering alpine climbs, I'll drop at least a full number grade from what I would usually lead.
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petsfed
Jul 14, 2003, 7:58 PM
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Difficulty has everything to do with it. As was already stated, 90 feet of 5.0 is nowhere near as runout as 40 feet of 5.6, which has nothing on 20 feet of 5.11. I know from experience on the first two. When you're nearly tweaking from fear, your last piece is by necessity 20 feet below you and the ground 10 feet beyond that, with the climbing near your limit, that's runout. If you've got a long clean fall if you pitch, with good pro behind you, you shouldn't be afraid to fly. As was said, runout is when you start to sketch, never before. If you can cruise 5.13 solo, then runout is not really an issue right? For us mere mortals, 1 pro-less pitch of 5.8 can certainly get your blood pumping, eh?
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howdidshedothat
Jul 14, 2003, 8:40 PM
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run for me is 20-30 ft w/o pro (difficulty pending of course)
8)
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alpinerockfiend
Jul 14, 2003, 11:12 PM
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As some have stated earlier, runout has more to do with an injury factor than the space between your pro. At least that's the best way I've found to judge it, and that's what I use when giving my FAs a runout rating. Many guidebook authors differ on this point. For example, a .10a sport route that offers a potential ankle-breaker fall to talus from 20 ft. but is very well protected afterwards is given an R rating, even if that first 20 feet is only 5.6. Other authors would not mention the runout, assuming that somebody on a .10a sport route would be comfortable on .6R. So it just depends... Get familiar with the style of the guide and the area.
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grigriese
Jul 15, 2003, 12:18 AM
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In reply to: John Long states simply, runout is the distance between two points of protection.
That sounds about right to me!
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evoltobmilc
Jul 15, 2003, 12:40 AM
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In reply to: I don't think that difficulty has anything to do with it. It is a simple factor of fall potential.
I think that difficulty does have to do with fall potential- there is much less potential that I will fall on 5.2 than 5.12. Therefore, if I am 100 ft out from my last pro on a pitch where there is no possibility (potential) that I will fall the fall potential is less than if I'm 20 feet out on with 5.9 moves ahead of me.
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dino
Jul 15, 2003, 12:46 AM
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When I look down and say, "Oh sh*t! I sure wish I had another piece in." its too run out.
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ihuang
Jul 15, 2003, 6:25 AM
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What's the biggest whipper you guys have taken without pulling the pro out?
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fanederhand
Jul 15, 2003, 10:19 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I don't think that difficulty has anything to do with it. It is a simple factor of fall potential. I think that difficulty does have to do with fall potential- there is much less potential that I will fall on 5.2 than 5.12. Therefore, if I am 100 ft out from my last pro on a pitch where there is no possibility (potential) that I will fall the fall potential is less than if I'm 20 feet out on with 5.9 moves ahead of me.
I guess terminology has a lot to do with this subject. What evoltobmilc is referring to is "fall probability". "Fall potential" the way I was using it meant the distance you would fall not the likelihood of falling. The likelihood of someone falling is a statistical function because even the best of climbers could have a fall on a lower grad climb due to some unexpected thing happening, like a seemingly bomber hold breaking. I like the simple explanation made by one commenter that runout is the distance between set pro and the next set of pro. Another issue related to this is a climb that has great pro everywhere on the climb. If a leader chooses not to put in pro is that a run out climb? No, the actual physical climb is not run out but the leader "is" running the climb out because he felt comfortable doing so. A big difference between that and a route that physically does not have anyplace to set pro!!
Hey -- this is a great thread. Climb on and climb safe so we can meet at the crag another day!!
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fanederhand
Jul 15, 2003, 10:52 AM
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In reply to: What's the biggest whipper you guys have taken without pulling the pro out?
There was a long thread on that subject a couple of months ago. But anyway I took a good 30 foot whipper and almost decked because of it. I had placed two pieces very close to each other thank goodness one pulled the other held thus I am able to answer your thread today. One thing a lot of folks forget about on climbing is that if you take a fall you fall farther than 2x the distance from the last pro (if your pro holds) you have rope stretch as well.
Climb on and climb safe my friend. :D
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dirtineye
Jul 15, 2003, 1:28 PM
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In reply to: What's the biggest whipper you guys have taken without pulling the pro out?
20 feet or so. Many times.
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rhu
Jul 23, 2003, 10:49 PM
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I'm always runout! :roll:
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cloudbreak
Jul 23, 2003, 11:26 PM
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In reply to: anytime the corner is twisted off my baggy I have definetly "run out"
Doood that is classic funny!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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vegastradguy
Jul 23, 2003, 11:30 PM
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i consider it run out if i'm looking down and i know i'll break something if i fall.
however, that being said, i'm much more likely to run it out (and be comfortable)on a 5.5-5.6 than i am a 5.8-5.9. however, there's always an exception to that rule.
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ricardol
Jul 24, 2003, 12:26 AM
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snake dike is runout ..
75' between pro ..
-- ricardo
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