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yates easydaisy sling change
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supertopoz


Jul 28, 2003, 6:13 PM
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yates easydaisy sling change
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Okay you should never take advise from some guy on the net.

You can replace the worn out sling on your easy daisy. Provided that it is of similar size as the original.

Some bad points
The knot you attach the sling to you harness is not as strong as the original sewn sling.

The webbing thickness might not last as long.

Some good points
You can tie the sling to your harness rather than gearth hitching.

And the whole set up does not need to be all that strong anyway. If you take a daisychain fall that is strong enough to break the new set up then it's a big enough fall to break you.

These are my arguements for not shelling out for a whole new daisy unit.
I would like you thoughts.


passthepitonspete


Jul 29, 2003, 5:54 AM
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Just to clarify my thinking, you are replacing this sling because the buckle is slipping, right?

Does this fix the problem?

Is the slippage problem caused by a worn sling or a worn buckle?


spike


Jul 29, 2003, 7:34 AM
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Hi Pete,
You know that I use the Yates Adjustable Daisys.
I spoke with YATES about sending in my old pair of adjustable daisys to have the webbing replaced. They said they would, BUT, slippage is a combination of worn webbing and worn teeth on the buckle.
So I ordered another set of adjustable daisys, but I had them custom made 3" longer.
Richard / SPIKE


supertopoz


Jul 30, 2003, 1:03 AM
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Well my easy daisy does not have any teeth!

Pete the sling is worn out more than the buckle.
This was just my idea for saving the daisy.

Another point is I feel that how you use the daisy may also be equal to how much it degrades. For example if you leave it in its packaging then it will last longer than if you take it out, and say use it on a big wall.

More to the point, if you use it to hoist your body up a climb then it's going to wareout, then say it you just tension it after pulling up with you arms and legs.

I have used two of mine for nearly a year and they have not sliped once yet. My idea is about two things, what do you do on the wall if you daisy sling gets trashed.

I don't think buckle ware will be too much of a problem for me as I am strong in the arm and tend not you use the daisy for hoisting too much. I am not saying that hoisting is wrong, Just I like to look like a burly builder with forearms the size of trees.


the_dude


Jul 30, 2003, 1:35 AM
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IMHO, I would think you would check the conditions of you daisies before going up on a wall. I know I do, and I have never had to replace slings on the wall. Try the Metolius, There work great, zero slippage, webbing doesn't wear out, and the cam buckle springs don't weaken( there aren't any). Please don't respond be saying that they're not as strong.. daisies aren't meant to be. back up the back up. I hope I don't come accross rude!, not my intent.
Cheers
The Dude


the_dude


Aug 3, 2003, 9:26 PM
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After a bit of practice, the Easy Daisies are easy(no pun intended) to release on overhangs and roofs. It just takes a little practice with that strap handle thing to get it down. One key tip is to keep'em untwisted. Basically at the end of one steep pitch they should be working for ya. I'm a bit biased because I love them so much, but overall I think they are easier to use. Every body loves their own gear. :)
Cheers
The Dude


iamthewallress


Aug 4, 2003, 1:06 PM
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In reply to:
IMHO, I would think you would check the conditions of you daisies before going up on a wall.

My Yates adjustable aiders failed after 7 pitches of use. What could I have checked for in this case? If you need a mechanical hoo-ha to make upward progress, it's not a bad idea to have some sling handy for back-up lest you be 7 pitches up a 30 pitch wall when yours give way.


flamer


Aug 4, 2003, 3:10 PM
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That's funny I've had 3 sets of Yates adjustable daisies now and I've yet to have them slip. I bought my first pair when they very first came on the market- when they had the really light weight buckle. I didn't climb with them for very long because shortly after Yates upgraded the buckle and put that nifty little twist in the sewn loop- So I upgraded. One of my Original's still resides on my Haulbag...making getting a bag on and off an anchor a snap(without using any docking tethers and load release knots).
I just bought a new pair after 5 walls and countless short lines. For 2 reasons #1 Yates modified them again and the design is another improvement! #2 The webbing was starting to fray. But I still had no slippage. I have a buddy who used the original's(with the lightweight buckle) until they started to slip- and he doesn't remember how many pitchs he climbed with them-but I know it was alot- and He should have retired them before he did- due to the shoddy shape the webbing was in!!
I guess different people have different experience's.
I will always use Yates high quality stuff.
josh


dsafanda


Aug 4, 2003, 3:21 PM
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I think it depends on how you use them. I think it's determined by both your experience level and the type of terrain your climbing on. On slabby and moderate terrain there's not much reason to be cinching down on the daisy on every single placement or after every step up in the aiders. In this case your daisys shouldn't see much abuse. However, on steep overhanging terrain I find myself relying much more on the daisys. On the Kor Roof for example I remeber the process going...clip bolt, cinch up on daisy, clip bolt, cinch up on daisy, clip bolt, cinch up on daisy and so on. If you climbed an entire route in this fashion I would think they'll wear out much sooner. Just a theory. Mel certainly knows what she's doing and hers failed after only seven pitches so perhaps this theory doesn't fly.


flamer


Aug 4, 2003, 4:30 PM
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Yeah what you're saying makes sense. I try not to cinch them as much as possible....it's faster that way...On the bolt ladders at the start of WFLT I only cinched up maybe half the time? Faster to grab the biner and yard to the next bolt than pull in tight...still though.
Also why do people use the Adjustable Aiders? They seem like they would add alot more time. I'll stick to my traditional jobs for now...I would really like to see what Fish comes up with concerning the Russian system...


iamthewallress


Aug 4, 2003, 4:39 PM
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I see what you are saying David, but my slippage issue was on my aiders, not daisies. There realy is no way to avoid moving those up every time. :wink:

Flamer, there are a few reasons why I tried the aiders.

1. Because your feet stay cinched into them, you don't waste time trying to get your foot back in the blowing aider. My partner on WFLT had them while I had the old fashioned etriers, and with all of their swinging in space, it seemed faster to just keep your feet planted. I found this to be an advantage and disadvantage in practice. It's no good when leading a traverse, for example, but it's awesome when jugging.

2. I was recovering from knee surgery and liked that I could adjust my steps to whatever size was comfortable.

3. Sometimes it's nice to eek out the extra 2 inches more than the 2nd step that you want and avoid getting in the top step.

4. They are less bulky than the traditional etriers. This is especially nice when you need to switch to free. Also, you can free a move or two (4th class probably my limit) with the stirups on your feet because they stay put.


dsafanda


Aug 4, 2003, 4:48 PM
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Because your feet stay cinched into them, you don't waste time trying to get your foot back in the blowing aider.

One of the nice features on the Yates Big Wall ladders is the elastic band in the bottom two steps that can be pulled over your shoe while you're jugging so that you don't slip out of the steps. It sounds like the Big Wall ladders are too clunky for your taste. I wonder if they have this feature in their other etriers. Seems like this should be standard in all aiders.


flamer


Aug 4, 2003, 4:50 PM
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Melissa,
Good points!
Some of them are the same reasons for using the Russian jobs....I would suspect that you are interested in them as well....
Have you seen the ones the Misty Mtn. makes with the elastic band that flips over your foot for jugging? They work like a charm!
So my question to you is....regardless of slippage....what did you prefer overall?
josh


iamthewallress


Aug 4, 2003, 5:30 PM
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Melissa,
So my question to you is....regardless of slippage....what did you prefer overall?

I'm not sure. If I were doing something where I planned to mostly or totally be jugging, I'd prefer the adjustables (The slippage sort of was tolerable when jugging. It couldn't take my full weight though when aiding.) If I were doing really straight forward vertical stuff, the adjustables would be good too. Windy days...adjustables.

But for most real-life stuff where it traverses and standing in two as opposed to one aider is desirable, I'll probably go back to 4 etriers until I can give the Russians a wrangle.

It's kind of moot b/c one of my adjustables is broken. :(

Valygrl had some of those last spring. I sure was jealous of her teeny tiny pouch of aiders instead of my two pound sleeping bag sized stuff sack full of them.


iamthewallress


Aug 4, 2003, 5:40 PM
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It sounds like the Big Wall ladders are too clunky for your taste. I wonder if they have this feature in their other etriers. Seems like this should be standard in all aiders.

No...I'd be happy to try ladders too. They seem like they'd be easier to get your foot into them which is my main gripe w/ the loopy etriers. The only reason why I have those is that I only knew what Johns Long and Middendorf told me in their book before heading out for my first wall effort. I just went to REI and bought what they were selling which were giant BD 6 step aiders. My partner had a pair of knotted ones, so I figured these things at $25 a pop were pretty luxurious. After getting set back for the adjustables, I'm too cheap to pay for a slight variation on the originals. I think the elastics a a newer modification and many of the newer aiders have them.

Has anyone tried the homemade Russian aiders for which someone posted construction instructions?


epic_ed


Aug 4, 2003, 8:13 PM
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FWIW -- my first set of aiders were the Metolius adjustables. I liked them initially, but coupled with the adjustable daisies I really felt like a marionette. Cinching something with every move (aider, daisey, aider, aider, daisey...repeat until you feel like a puppet) was much more time consuming than stepping up a ladder. They are great for jugging, though. I usually use them when ascending fixed lines.

After using the Yates BW ladders, it just sucks using any other type of ladder. I have one pair of the Yates, and one pair of the Metolius ladders. In my 4-ladder system I'm always much happier when I'm standing on my Yates. Can't wait until the Metolius wears out.

Ed


dsafanda


Aug 5, 2003, 9:11 AM
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On a side note, I find the Yates BigWall ladders so roomy that I climb with 2 instead of 4. I've only climbed easy aid though. Perhaps I'd want 4 if I were climbing something more difficult.


iamthewallress


Aug 5, 2003, 10:56 AM
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On a side note, I find the Yates BigWall ladders so roomy that I climb with 2 instead of 4. I've only climbed easy aid though. Perhaps I'd want 4 if I were climbing something more difficult.

I don't know if it's because I'm shorter or because I suck (probably some combo of the two), but I like to stick my back foot out for stability when it gets steep, so I like to have 4 around. The bummer is that I spend a lot of time undoing the aider macrame.


dsafanda


Aug 5, 2003, 11:07 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I stand in two aiders on most pieces. Only on that first transition move on to a new piece am I standing in one aider. I then reach down and bring up the other aider and clip it in to the biner on the aider which is clipped in to the piece. I then have to go back to standing on one aider again when I place a new piece. It can be sort of tricky at times but the Big Wall ladders are roomy enought that I can easily match feet in any given step.

Interesting...in the process of trying to describe this I've made it sound more complicated than 4 aiders. It's probably best that no one take aid advice from me. ;)


flamer


Aug 5, 2003, 8:47 PM
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Having tried Several different combonation's of aiders(2,3,4). What I ultimately use is a combination of the 2 and 3 methods. 4 was just WAY to bulky and slowed me down tremendously. I always try and use just 2, but I carry a 3rd and use it when the moves get tricky or traversing. I also use 3/4" aiders instead of 1", I like them because they are less bulky, and with good boots they are fairly comfy. I use them with free shoes alot which is not comfortable, but that just makes me not want to be in them- which makes me move faster!!
josh


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