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elrojobdugs
Aug 2, 2003, 6:22 PM
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Registered: Jul 19, 2003
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hey there... ive been climbing for a while, mostly sport... and when im with my friend trad as well, since he has the pro... my friend however has lost some interest in the sport, while mine has blossomed... ive been climbing more often these days, but unfortunately not trad since i dont have my own rack... ive got the money and im just asking for some suggestions on the best possible rack of pro... please help... i have my own opinions, but id like to see what other people think... im willing to spend anything, but i just want to get what i need.
thanks elrojo
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alpnclmbr1
Aug 2, 2003, 7:00 PM
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this is my favorite selection of gear
Easy climb
0 TCU (so light)
Green alien
Yellow alien
Red Alien
Purple camalot
Green camalot
Red camalot
Gold camalot
1 1/2 Sets of bd stoppers
8 spectra shoulder slings (10 free biners)
2 doglegs (1/2 length shoulder slings)
atc + locker
daisychain w/light locker
extra locker
nut tool + biner
Harder climb
00 TCU
0 TCU
Green alien x2
Yellow alien x2
Red Alien x2
Purple camalot
Green camalot x3
Red camalot x2
Gold camalot x2
1 1/2 Sets of bd stoppers
Set of rp’s
Set of steel nuts
Small peanuts x3
HB’s x3
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caughtinside
Aug 2, 2003, 7:09 PM
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Get a set of nuts and 8-10 cams. I find that for most easy trad climbs, 5.9 and under, larger cams will be more valuable. Some folks are into hexes, I've never placed one so I wouldn't get any.
As for brands, you've climbed trad before, so you should have some experience with gear. Did you like the stuff you used? have you talked to other climbers and played with gear at the shop?
And get 8 or so shoulder length runners. One thing I wish I would have done when buying pro, at least at first, is not bought spectra sewn runners. Sure, they're nice and I like em, but they cost 5 bucks or so each! If you just buy 4 foot lengths of webbing and tie waterknots, they cost less than a buck each. Yeah, a little bulkier, but I think it would have been a good way to go starting out.
So yeah, a set of nuts, 8 cams or so, 8 runners or so, and probably 24-30 biners is a good place to start.
Don't feel you need to have all this stuff at once. Try to hook up with a partner who has a rack/partial rack. Or better yet, borrow your buddy's rack for a few days.
Don't spend too much on nuts and biners either.
And hey, that's just what I'd do. That, and wait for stuff to go on sale!
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elrojobdugs
Aug 2, 2003, 7:26 PM
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yeah ive used camelots... and some nuts... but id like to hear what other people use and love... ive talked to alot of people who like to mismatch camelots and aliens and trangos and so on... i was looking for some advice on the best rack... which probably means a mix of different brands
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caughtinside
Aug 2, 2003, 7:43 PM
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Hmmm, ok. Well, I've got .5, .75, 1, 2 and 3 camalots. Below that, I've got yellow, green and blue aliens. Mixed into the camalot sizes, I've got 3 DMM cams, which I really like.
Something you might consider is looking at all the cam threads in the gearheads forum, maybe trad as well. Lots of discussions from people talking about pros and cons of various brands of cams.
For what it's worth, I've never really come across a cam that I didn't like. Well, I'm not a fan of metolius cams, but they're still quality gear.
Prevailing wisdom on this site seems to be that the bulk of your cams should be either BD or Wild Country(which are nice, and cheaper) and your smaller cams should be either aliens or metolius TCUs.
But whatever works, you know? I really like the DMM cams, and they're considerably cheaper, 45 bucks for every cam.
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the_crawler
Aug 2, 2003, 8:21 PM
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A trad rack is something that needs to be built with the kind of climbing you will be starting on. Most all trad racks contain some standart things, long runners with biners(quick draws of trad), lockers and webbing/cordellete for setting anchors, Nut Tool, etc. The gear part usually starts with a set of nuts (BD, WC, etc) Most easier trad climbs have been or could be led with only these types of gear. Cams are great cool and exspensive. Start with the sizes you need for the climbs you will start on ( this is best discovered from someone local who has done the climbs.) Its silly to go out and spend $$$$$$$$$$$$ on Camelots #5 to the tiny red when half of them you want use for acouple of years, spend $$$$$$$$$ on gas and go climbing. These are the questions to ask : what kind of rock. What kind of placements Vert/Horz, tapering cracks or parallel sided, Pods, eyebrows. Ask the locals for advice and buy oly what you need and learn how to use it. A huge trad rack does not make you a better trad climber it only makes you heavy!
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slcliffdiver
Aug 2, 2003, 8:27 PM
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First where do you climb and plan on climbing most Seneca, Gunks? How do you climb push yourself and fall on Gunks roof frequently or seldom if ever fall? What is your budget like? The more details you give the better beta people will be able to give you on what to get. What level do you lead trad?
Are you looking for brands or how much to get? I'd figure you'd have a relatively good idea of the sizes you need and how much you'd like to have by climbing with your friend. If you're looking to start going other places or change how much you push yourself and what you plan on doing let us know. For Seneca the first 2-3 sizes of tri-cams come in handy. Beyond that and liking aliens as small cams, a set of BD stoppers 4-12/13 (or others of similar shape, smilies etc.) I don't really know what to tell you without more info.
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kansasclimber
Aug 2, 2003, 8:53 PM
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I have Almost a full set of Camalots-.1-4, I havent came acrossed a place where you could use anything higher than that, unless you plan on doing the devils tower or something, I am trying to get the main sizes of aliens and then im set, i also have 2 sets of nuts one is BD and the other ABC, also it is all about the shoulder slings, cant have enough of them, their light and can use them anywhere, even for protection (Horns, Blocks etc.) I also like to have 10-15 spare biners on my rack just in case. So all in all I like my rack, again I have:
------.1-4 Camalots
------1 set of BD stoppers
------1 set of ABC stoppers
------4 shoulder slings (soon to get more)
------1 BD nut tool
------12 enduro quick draws (like to put on nuts)
------1 Daisy chain
and i just started, i have only done maybe 5 trad routes so far, just starting to get them scratched up, any more beta on this stuff pm me
Stephen
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eltusko
Aug 3, 2003, 12:28 AM
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I would take the advice already given, figure out what kind of gear is needed at your local crag and get that first. Aside from that, think of it this way: there were no cams back in the day, so you can climb a lot without them. Get good at setting passive pro, then worry about spending the big dough and taking the step up. Check out Camp's tricams and monocams, they're pretty useful in a lot of situations where a mechanical cam can be used, and they're a hell of a lot cheaper. Make sure you learn the basics and fundamentals before jumping straight for the cams.
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davidji
Aug 3, 2003, 2:09 AM
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In reply to: Aside from that, think of it this way: there were no cams back in the day, so you can climb a lot without them. |
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elrojobdugs
Aug 3, 2003, 6:38 AM
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i climb in the red and new river gorge... and i plan on making trips out to the east coast like the gunks... i do realize that there is a difference in granite and sandstone...
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elrojobdugs
Aug 3, 2003, 6:40 AM
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oh and i have no budget... and can lead a 5.10 trad and on a good day an easy 5.12 sport
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tt
Aug 3, 2003, 9:06 PM
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Registered: Apr 6, 2003
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I bought my rack based upon recommendations here, on tradgirl, and from my friends.
Almost everyone likes BD Camalots at least 0.5-2, (3, 3.5 come in handy for me)
For small cams, most people seem to like Aliens, which is what I have (blue, green, yellow)
At least 1 set of nuts, most commonly black diamond, but the ABC huevos are basically the same and cheaper.
I also have a set of metolius nuts because they are shaped differently and complement my BD set.
Beyond that get your cordelletes/webolettes, at least 6 2 ft slings and 6 quickdraws and biners. Two 4 ft slings are also good to carry.
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the_crawler
Aug 3, 2003, 9:26 PM
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Sandstone has as many horz. placements as vert around here, Ga and Tn. As stated above Camelots 3 to 3.5 down to the purple jr. (.5 or .25) Then as stated above I have the smallest three aliens, purple to yellow metolius. I do have all but the smallest camelot but I don't think the do as well when fallen on over edges. I prefer the double stem TCU's from Met. I carry doubles in the small stuff because thats what I like to climb but double up where you need em. Nuts to me what ever is cheaper out of BD or WC. If you can't lead it with that you might ought to stay off it. Good luck and have a blast. southern sandstone rocks!!!
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ergophobe
Aug 3, 2003, 10:59 PM
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Registered: Jul 1, 2002
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In reply to: im willing to spend anything, but i just want to get what i need.
I don't think there's any substitute for the old junk... I mean the vintage but no longer available climbing gear in my closet. Since you're willing to pay top dollar, I'll sell it to you...
Seriously, I've tried most stuff on the market and at least a dozen that you can't even buy anymore, and I've settled into the following for free climbin and easy aid.
1 set of HB offset stoppers + some DMM Wallnuts if not carrying small cams
1-2 ea blue, green, yellow Alien or blue/yellow TCU or whatever
1-2 ea .5, .75, 1, 2 Camalots
0-2 ea 3, 4, 5 Camalots
0-1 ea 7, 8, 9, 10 hexes
Selection depends on the route. On an easy backcountry route with a long approach, I would just carry about a half-dozen stoppers and a handful of hexes. If I were going cragging, the hexes wouldn't go in the pack, let alone on the rack, but I would have doubles in all sizes. If I thought I might tackle an offwidth, I would grab doubles in the big sizes.
CAMS: I have a complete mix of brands on my rack and strongly recommend against it. The only reason I have done this is because I've built my rack over years and can't bear to replace cams that function just fine. That said, it's sort of a hassle when you pull off a cam, realize it's the wrong size, and then have to figure out which cam in another brand would go. I HATE the BD trigger wires which break constantly, but if I were starting over, I would buy exclusively BD cams for the .5+ sizes. They're heavy, but they just work so well and have good range. For the smaller sizes, most people around here (Yosemite) prefer Aliens, but the best trad free climber I've ever met (has onsighted 5.13) prefers TCUs. I personally don't have a strong preference, but don't care for the smaller BD cams (too wide). The only cams that, in my experience, overlap perfectly are the yellow TCU and the yellow Alien. Otherwise only only mix and match out of economic necessity. The same super-good free climber who prefers TCUs also told me I should get rid of my old cams and get one brand in each size on my rack.
STOPPERS: I've used them all, but I find that so often nothing will work but an HB offset and it will work perfectly. Now I leave the Rocks, Stoppers and Wallnuts at home 90% of the days. Again, that's Yosemite (granite, often irregular). In other types of rock, you might find other brands work better.
HEXES: Most people who didn't learn to climb using them hate them. I don't usually take them anymore unless weight is really an issue, and once it gets to 5.10, I'd just rather hump cams in no matter how far it is. On a long free route where I feel like I don't want to carry double cams, I'll grab a few hexes for backups and try to use them in the belays to save the cams for the next lead.
Also, you're right to spend the money up front, rather than save a few bucks now and regret it on every climb you do for the next few decades - protection doesn't really wear out until you lose it (If I hadn't lost it two months ago, I would still be using my first Friend, purchased in 1979 or 1980 ... waaahh. It was a good Friend).
Tom
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sirwhipsalot
Aug 3, 2003, 11:37 PM
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OFFSET FRIENDS RULE THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!
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flyinghatchet
Aug 4, 2003, 2:22 AM
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Can anybody guess why I'm moving this to Trad Climbing?
8)
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elrojobdugs
Aug 4, 2003, 4:40 AM
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whats everyones problem with hexes... like i said i dont have any trad pro of my own... but ive learned to use them and i find them quite nifty... not neary as good as some other pro, but not worthless like some of the comments ive heard
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ergophobe
Aug 5, 2003, 6:43 AM
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In reply to: whats everyones problem with hexes...
As I said, I still use them in some situations. They're light per piece, don't have springs to freeze up, take incredible abuse, and in a pinch can be hammered into a crack and, if you're very lucky, hammered back out again.
That said, I'm on an overhanging handcrack, oh God save me, I'm pumping out, I'm crying, a warm liquid flows down my pants, I have ten seconds left to hang on, so I reach of a number 7 hex. I don't think so.
With cams you will simply climb harder once you start leading things that put hang power to the test. Also, if doing long routes, using cams will add up up to a significant time savings over passive gear. Think saving three minutes per pitch won't matter? On a 23-pitch route (I just pick that b/c that's how long my last climb was), that adds up to over an hour. That's the difference between topping out in daylight and doing the last three pitches by headlamp.
T
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slcliffdiver
Aug 5, 2003, 10:25 PM
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Okay sounds like you get around a bit. I promised right? so here goes.
BD or similar shaped stopper 4-12/13 not WC shape (imo) to start with the BD's are trapaziod when looking from above WC are rectangular this helps for flares when placed sideways with the BD shape. A half set 6-10 BD size of Walnuts, metoleous, or HB offsets all suited better for irregular rock than BD's go with a full set if you can afford it then climb with a set and a half mostly and change the primary set depending on the rock. First 3-4 sizes of low tricams and hexes from there up to 9-11 BD size you can figure out from what you're on where you want to top out in size I like the WC slung hexes I don't have them yet but I've placed a partners and like them. Flexable cams BD sizes from .5 to 3, 3.5, possibly 4 again you probably have an idea the size you'd like to top out budget and climbs I really doubt you'll want or need to shlep the 4 around that much and maybe not the 3.5 either. Some people may disagree about the hexes but my opinion is you should at least start out learning to use them well and can double up on cams for the areas you'd prefer to later. They're less expensive than cams so if you ending up retiring them except for specific areas or climbs you won't break your bank and some placements they just rule over cams but you'll never find that out unless you place them enough. And in general learning to place passive pro well just seems to me to be part of being a well rounded climber.
I think this is a nice full starter rack.
Special considerations for later:
Small aliens rule (the big ones suck too floppy) when you find yourself wanting small cams at least check them out. For the Gunks if you ever start regularly logging air time at the gunks ridged stemed friends with a Gunks tie offs or more tri-cams will keep you from trashing your cables on expensive cams in the horizontal cracks when you fall.
As you start adding more and more sets of stopper add different shapes. In the long run it'll be nice to have either a couple of sets of BD or a set of BD and a set of Wild country. But other than that if you climb often enough to keep track of them keep adding different shapes.
Now some people are really going to think I'm nuts but learn good biner, cord and webbing jam technique (mostly termed knot jams I try to stay away from this term because people don't realize how small off constrictions knots can pull through with force). Here is where it relates to pro; mostly I carry spectra slings but I also carry at least 1 piece each of shoulder length; 9/16" sewn nylon, 1" tied tubular, 7 mm cord (extendo draw fashion) and save them for last so I have them in case I come upon a situation I want a biner/cord/webbing jam (infrequent for pro or anchors but useful reasonably often to protect other pieces from lifting out or moving. Also don't give up on med/medium-large tri-cams right away. They are absolutely heinous to place before you can flip-twist them into a good placement orientation with one hand (I loothed the medium and above sizes when I first tried them). But after you get it down (I practiced while watching tv) you can often get good placements faster with them in highly featured rock than regular cams and periodicaly you can get good placements with them where nothing else is worth while. However in places with smooth subtly featured cracks they can be almost pointless. Don't make the second set of cams you get the same as the first except for the small ones and don't continue sets up past the point where they get floppy switch over to something stiffer for the larger ones. I'm some what convinced that hand fit is as important as some other things in terms of ease and speed of placement play around and see what feels good to your hand. A couple of other thing to consider is cams with 2 or stiff cables/stems can have a tendency to walk more than pro with floppier cable but they can be easier to place precisely sometimes especially as they get larger.
I was avoiding doing something I'd rather put of can you tell :wink:
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climbhigher
Aug 6, 2003, 1:55 AM
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Registered: Dec 6, 2002
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Here's my favorite rack. for biners. nutrinos for racking cams and DMM prowires for quick draws. Mammut just came out with some bitchin thin slings for quick draws. 2 sets of aliens- black to orange. and 2 sets of camalots- red to purple. set of Hb offsets and set of Hb offsets brass. You can go even lighter with friends instead of camalots. or you can replace the aliens with metiolious TCU's. If you are a beginner leader, buy #11, 10, 9, 8, 7 BD hex's and a set of BD Stoppers and you are ready to go. That's a great way to keep it simple and develop an eye for crack sizes. And buy the number 6 friend instead of the #5 camalot. Much better cam. Jeezzzz i wish i had this beta when i first started leading!!!! CHEERS. Chris.
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elrojobdugs
Aug 6, 2003, 6:29 AM
Post #22 of 22
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Registered: Jul 19, 2003
Posts: 141
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hey thanks for the help on the rack... do u have any suggestions on the best passive pro???
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