|
wallmonkey
Aug 22, 2003, 8:24 PM
Post #1 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 3
|
I just wanted to know everyones opinion on the Access Fund. How many here are memebers of the Access Fund????
Thanks.
:D
|
|
|
|
|
toonarmy
Aug 22, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #2 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2003
Posts: 133
|
I am. But they still haven't sent me the t-shirt.
|
|
|
|
|
rrrADAM
Aug 22, 2003, 8:45 PM
Post #3 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
|
I donate generously twice per year. Have 6 shirts, and give the stickers away now, and post the monthly AF E-Newsletter to this Forum.
I also have donated to the ASCA.
|
|
|
|
|
wigglestick
Aug 22, 2003, 8:52 PM
Post #4 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 27, 2001
Posts: 1235
|
They give away shirts? I have been a member for almost 10 years and give 1% of my salary to them through a program we have here at work and never got no stinking shirt.
|
|
|
|
|
maculated
Aug 22, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #5 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 23, 2001
Posts: 6179
|
They do have shirts. The one I got was nasty, I gave it away.
I'm a member. Thank God they send new stickers. My other one was looking pretty ratty.
|
|
|
|
|
bradmc
Aug 29, 2003, 4:30 AM
Post #6 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 22, 2003
Posts: 78
|
i donate at every chance i get; trail days and slide shows and also do the annual membership gig.
the access fund has donated big grants every year to crags in my area so i try to do a little bit to help them out too.
without the AF; one of my favorite crags would be a subdivision with the rocks turned into road gravel.
|
|
|
|
|
moabbeth
Aug 29, 2003, 5:29 AM
Post #7 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 1786
|
I joined last year. Donated again a few months ago.
I think I got a shirt.
|
|
|
|
|
mungeclimber
Aug 29, 2003, 6:50 AM
Post #8 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 2, 2002
Posts: 648
|
Devoted to AF
Only org working to preserve climber rights on a national scale.
It's all political, so we need a political arm.
Donate now. Check their site out for reasons why. Look at what they've done over the last 10 years for climbers.
no question, do it.
|
|
|
|
|
just_me
Sep 3, 2003, 6:42 PM
Post #9 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 13, 2002
Posts: 193
|
If you join the AF, a basic membership is $35. For that you get the satisfaction of knowing that you are helping to preserve climbing. For $50, you also get a t-shirt. It is part of their incentive program. The more money you donate, the more schwag you can get.
Wiggie, if you really want a t-shirt, just call them up and explain your situation. I am willing to bet you would readily get one for donating money.
By the way, they are now giving away a really cool shirt with the “Mandala” design. It is much better than the “angel” t-shirts they were giving out before! Check out this page to see the t-shirt:
http://www.accessfund.org/...chandise_afgear.html
|
|
|
|
|
tahquitztwo
Sep 3, 2003, 6:53 PM
Post #10 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 1, 2002
Posts: 197
|
Ditto for Access Fund. I've seen many instances of what they help support for those of us who enjoy climbing. I donate to them when I have extra pesos......
if you're a person who enjoys getting out on those rocks no matter what kind of climbing you do...help support the Access Fund. 8)
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 7:02 PM
Post #11 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
The Access Fund is a fraud.
Talk to people that have REAL dealings with them.
They do not represent climbers.
Search through the forums to find some real info about these corportae blood suckers.
Do not believe the hype and propaganda that they generate.
They have caused more harm than good. The truth is out there, but difficult to find because people on this site are threatened by the truth, and do their best to bury anyone that doesn't fall into lockstep agreement.
The AF is for Mental Midgets that want to alleviate their own guilt.
Most of the biggest donators are the largest reasons why we have access problems to begin with. Self serving, self aggrandizing, rectal pores that believe they have a "right" to climb.
|
|
|
|
|
leemeans
Sep 3, 2003, 7:24 PM
Post #12 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 28, 2002
Posts: 27
|
<----Access Fund Member & Southeastern Climbers Coalition member!
Climb on!
-lee
|
|
|
|
|
dave1970
Sep 3, 2003, 7:26 PM
Post #13 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 94
|
In my opinion, your contributions would be much more effectively used if given to a more local organization. Some suggestions would be ASCA, Utah Open Lands Alliance, Eldo Preservation Society, and Flatirons Climbing Council.
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 3, 2003, 7:27 PM
Post #14 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: The Access Fund is a fraud. Talk to people that have REAL dealings with them. They do not represent climbers. Search through the forums to find some real info about these corportae blood suckers. Do not believe the hype and propaganda that they generate.
...be specific....what are you talking about?....try Rumney, NH ....and the countless other areas they have purchased, preserved for climbing, or are working to gain access to. Do you belong? Do you have evidence that they are the Rat Bastards you portray?....hello....
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 7:38 PM
Post #15 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
I have plenty of hard evidence, and have detailed it here previously. It should still be lurking in the archives somewhere.
No, I am not a member and with good reason.
And yes, I have dealt with them as a Land owner.
The Access Fund is a bunch of lawyers, tied to corporate culture. They sleep with the large Outdoor companies.
They invest climbers money in Annuities (with themselves as beneficiaries!) and use very little, if any to actually purchase land. They instead, try to wrangle private owners into making the purchases after they have driven the market price through the roof. Take a look at the income statements and you will see that very, very little $ is actually used for their stated purpose. But yet, they buy new vehicles for themselves to drive to their meetings.
They are all drawing nice salaries --far greater than any average climber will make. They have a large building and land that they own that is not used for climbing.
When they had a big level meeting in the Gunks a few years back, many stayed in the Mountain House (over $300/night), drove rented jeep Cherokees ($79/day) and billed it all to the Fund.
A bunch of spoiled rich brats that have found a way to bilk climbers so that they can live their dreams. I personally know members of their board that could'nt give a rat's behind if you and I ever get to climb squat. Born with Silver spoons in their mouths, as long as THEY get to climb, that's all that really matters.
Think about this:
Should't their real goal to be to eliminate themselves? and their need to exist?
Instead, they, like all corps, are in expansion mode. Trying to acquire greater amounts of capital to invest.
As posted above, there are better, more honest and faithful organizations to donate to, but in the end I donate to no one.
It is behavior we need to change, not access. Almost all access issues are avoidable if people only knew how to behave, and respect private property.
And for every "win" they crow about, they have three "loses" they never let you know about.
They have caused more closures than openings. They antagonize and harass private land owners and threaten them with frivolous lawsuits. They are bullies, plain and simple. Lawyers, masquerading as climbers, and acting as land bullies.
Believe what you will, but always remember : The Masses are A$$es
Just getting back from the Gunks, where I own land, and seeing High Ranking members of the Access Fund climbing out at SkyTop, which is officially closed. Nice to see that their connections allow them to continue climbing on land that is closed to the rest of us (supposedly...and that's another subject altogether.)
If you want to make a difference, then do so. Sending them money is a waste of resources. Do what I did. Cut the check, but for the land itself, not the Af, and control access as an individual.
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 3, 2003, 7:57 PM
Post #16 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: They invest climbers money in Annuities (with themselves as beneficiaries!) and use very little, if any to actually purchase land. They instead, try to wrangle private owners into making the purchases after they have driven the market price through the roof.
.........how can they inflate real estate values without acctually purchasing the propertiy or adjacent property themselves?
In reply to: The Access Fund is a bunch of lawyers, tied to corporate culture. They sleep with the large Outdoor companies.
...o.k...as much as I hate lawyers...I don't have a problem working with any corporate sponsor that is willing to donate money to this cause?
In reply to: They are all drawing nice salaries --far greater than any average climber will make. They have a large building and land that they own that is not used for climbing.
...you don't know the average median salary for climbers...please...I'm glad they own land and have a bldg....!
In reply to: Instead, they, like all corps, are in expansion mode. Trying to acquire greater amounts of capital to invest.
....and this is bad because......?.....they can purchase more land....generate more fund raising to do same?
....it sounds like you may have had a piece of property they were interested in ...but would not relent to your demands....say a an over inflated value on worthless property? I feel I can accuse you of this in much the same way you accuse them. Prove me wrong...your blanket statements are just that with out specifics.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 8:06 PM
Post #17 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Wrong...do your homework. Check previous posts, some as recent as March/april this year. Check their own income statements.
They spend the most $$$ on advertising and acquiring new members.
They spend more $$$ on their headquarters than anything else.
They spend very little, if any, on what they claim.
They get into competitive bidding with land owners, and then bow-out at the last minute, leaving an individual to foot the bill. They did NOT do this to me. They have done this to numerous others. THis is fact. Please do your homework!
They have no real intention of spending their hard given $$$ on land aquisition. They manipulate individuals to do their bidding for them.
It's all a matter of record. If you don't wan't to do the work, don't throw stones at someone who has.
DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!
Talk to people about Horsen 40 and what they did there.
It is not a personal issue. It a real issue that as a climber for over 30 years, I have learned about, piece by piece. Hard to extoll all that it took me 30 years to learn in a brief internet post.
Clearly you want to believe in them, so go right ahead. I'm not going to try to convince anyone at this point.....ciao!
One day, you may be wise enough to see what they are really doing. Until then, happy climbing!
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 3, 2003, 8:23 PM
Post #18 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: They get into competitive bidding with land owners, and then bow-out at the last minute, leaving an individual to foot the bill. They did NOT do this to me. They have done this to numerous others. THis is fact. Please do your homework!
....I still find it hard to believe that the properties that AF is after are "Hot Properties" where bidding wars occur. I can belive that adjacent land owners that find out that AF is interested in purchasing said property would bid it up to help the value of there adjacent properties.
If you are correct in your assertion about AF I will be the first to jump ship. However, your statements of discontent are not enough for me. As far as their Income Statements (personal)I really don't care..I don't know how much more homework I will do on AF....but until others substantiate your claims I'll stick with them.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 8:31 PM
Post #19 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
My claims have already been substantiated by others on this board, and in the larger, and real world.
Check previous posts!
Someone even posted the income statements.
It is all there in Black and White.
|
|
|
|
|
dave1970
Sep 3, 2003, 8:35 PM
Post #20 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 94
|
I posted the links to the TAX RETURNS.
http://documents.guidestar.org/2001/943/131/2001-943131165-1-9.pdf
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 3, 2003, 9:01 PM
Post #21 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
.....so the director of a National Fund Raising Org. like Af...making 68,000 a year is excessive?
...hey Molder...when do we find the aliens?
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 9:06 PM
Post #22 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Yes, it is excessive, especially since he has other sources of income, and works minimally at the job.
You should check his personal tax statements.
How much did he give...Oh my, he only took!
|
|
|
|
|
madriver
Sep 3, 2003, 9:19 PM
Post #23 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 8700
|
In reply to: Yes, it is excessive, especially since he has other sources of income, and works minimally at the job.
....do you know how much time and effort he puts into AF? As far as the 68 grand...we will agree to disagree.....this is well within what I would consider fair compensation for administering a org. such as AF. I really don't care what or where else he generates income from...God Bless...as far as what he gives....obviously a great amount of his life. I tend to be on the cynical side myself.....however ...I am on a fund raising board myself.."Swing for the Cure" http://www.swingforethecure.org/
....and have some knowledge of what it takes to do Fund Raising (on a much smaller scale)....unless the AF is as egregious as say the United Way..and they do not appear to be anywhere close....I think I'll stick with them.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
drkodos
Sep 3, 2003, 9:35 PM
Post #24 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 21, 2002
Posts: 2935
|
Yes I do know, because I know him personally and used to climb with him.
As well as climb, hang-out with and even went to school with some of the other board members, most of which remain friends although we do not agree on the AF.
There is an inherent problem with all fund raising that perhaps you are not aware of....
The original mission ALWAYS becomes compromised, because the need for self survaival of the organization becomes greater than the need to solve the problem they originally set out to address.
It is apparent in ALL fund raising groups. Period.
It has been discussed, studied, and written about by greater minds than ours.
The Access Fund is a fraud. There is no reason for them to exist. Their goal should be to disband, not grow larger.
|
|
|
|
|
dave1970
Sep 3, 2003, 9:37 PM
Post #25 of 54
(6999 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 2, 2003
Posts: 94
|
madriver:
68000 plus undisclosed 503(B) annuity benefits for an organization that is only taking in about 800,000 per year is offensively high. That exceeds 8.5% of the AF total take for the year.
How much do you guys pay your executive director?
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
