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andyk
Aug 28, 2003, 2:03 PM
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Hi
Thinking of coming over to Zion in September. Just need some info from climbers on which camp site should I stay at, how hard it is to get a bivy permit, were's best to get food and water.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Andy
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epic_ed
Aug 28, 2003, 2:27 PM
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What's a punter like you going to tackle in Zion? :wink:
Go here to make reservations at Watchman campground:
http://reservations.nps.gov/
You shouldn't have any problems getting a site after Labor Day weekend (this weekend). If sites are booked, then there is an area west of Springdale that is BLM land and they allow dispersed camping. I'll check my map for more specific info about that location.
Permits are easy to get and hassle free for the most part, and cheap -- $5 per team per climb. Only problem is waiting for the Back Country office to open at 6:30am if you're looking to get an alpine start. One trip to the office is all it takes, though, and if you can get that squared away the day before your climb then you can head out whenever you like. The rangers are pretty climber-friendly, especially compared to Yosemite. Just a different attitude.
Food and supplies are very available in the town just outside the park. Springdale has all sorts of tourist traps, restaurants, hotels, gas stations, grocery stores, and even a gear shop. Some businesses may close after Labor Day weekend, but most are open year 'round.
Have fun, Andy! First trip to Zion? Soloing or dragging a partner through your madness?
Ed
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noshoesnoshirt
Aug 28, 2003, 2:29 PM
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hey andy,
unless you have deep pockets, i'd just doss outside of the park. there's a good (free) pulloff a couple of miles outside of springdale, beside a creek. it's a trailhead, i think there's a sign on the highway that says "coal pit wash". often other climbers camped here.
bivy permits are simple to get, no hassles for walls. the staff honestly seems to like climbers. refreshing.
good food at many places in town. grocery prices are a bit steep, but not horrible. water is available in the park.
enjoy,
kerry
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rokshoxbkr19
Aug 28, 2003, 2:50 PM
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Yeah, the place noshoesnoshirt is talking about is called Mosquito cove. If you are headed into Zion it is about a half a mile before the coal pits wash sign, but there is no sign for the campground. There is an old faded orange cone on a post where the pulloff is. It is a very nice campground right on Virgin River. That is definitely the plave to stay. I would hit up food stores in St. George or Hurricane just outside of springdale for better prices. Have fun, I spent the summer working in the park, if you have any more questions just leave me a message.
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brianinslc
Aug 28, 2003, 3:54 PM
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In reply to: Yeah, the place noshoesnoshirt is talking about is called Mosquito cove. If you are headed into Zion it is about a half a mile before the coal pits wash sign, but there is no sign for the campground. There is an old faded orange cone on a post where the pulloff is. It is a very nice campground right on Virgin River. That is definitely the plave to stay. I would hit up food stores in St. George or Hurricane just outside of springdale for better prices. Have fun, I spent the summer working in the park, if you have any more questions just leave me a message.
Actually, they are two different camping spots. The Coal Pits one is nice, but small. Mosquito Cove (on opposite side of the road, same side as the river) is much larger and you can get a bit more off the highway. Both nice. MC is between Springdale and Rockville between mile post 23 and 24 on the south side of the road. There's no facilities at either location, but, hey, its free.
Shitty Market in Hurricane is good for grocerys. Nice selection. Bit of a drive from Springdale which has a market right across from the Pizza Noodle but limited hours.
Zion Rock if you need gear or beta in Springdale (on the right well before you get to the Shell Station, after the Bit and Spur). Mean Bean for coffee in the morning, and usually some climbing spray (and if Zion Rock is closed, you can usually enquire at the Bean about when they might be open...).
Permits for climbing are easy (for overnight bivy's only, day climbs don't require a permit).
Good luck, be safe, have fun!
Brian in SLC
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noshoesnoshirt
Aug 28, 2003, 4:00 PM
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oops, i haven't been out there in a while; i thought mosquito cove and coal pit where the same pulloff.
mosquito cove is an apt description, btw. i spent a fair bit of late august / early september camping there a few years back, and occupied a lot of time in the evenings sweating in my car with the windows rolled up drinking warm miller high life, watching the bloodthirsty swarms gathering on my windshield.
not too sure why i was in zion in august. seemed like a good idea at the time...
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passthepitonspete
Aug 28, 2003, 8:54 PM
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Oh my goodness, it's "Britain's Most Famous Alpinist"! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
[Wasn't that the quote from some climbing mag somewhere?]
Sheesh. What is this world coming to?
{snicker}
Whasamatter, Andy? Nothing left for you to do in Yosemite now that you've soloed Reticent?
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atg200
Aug 28, 2003, 10:02 PM
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yosemite ain't the be all end all of wall climbing. zion rules, though i don't think the drilled angle anchors could take your loads so you better stay in yose.
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passthepitonspete
Aug 28, 2003, 10:09 PM
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For sure. I'm dyin' to get to Zion sometime. Anyone with spare frequent flyer points need a wall doctor????
I guess the sandstone of Zion is positively bomber when compared to the desert towers, eh?
{hands sweating just thinking about it}
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dsafanda
Aug 28, 2003, 10:21 PM
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I can't remember which one of the rags recently did a profile on Andy. His slide shows sound like quite the event. Any chance of bringing one to the Bay Area Andy?
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atg200
Aug 29, 2003, 3:07 PM
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In reply to: I guess the sandstone of Zion is positively bomber when compared to the desert towers, eh?
depends on the tower. not as good as the big wingate towers like moses, but definitely yosemite granite compared to the real deal like the fisher towers or the mystery towers.
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andyk
Aug 31, 2003, 7:42 AM
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Thanks for all the great advice.
I'm trying to juggle two kids, a workaholic wife and dreams of a big wall adventure and so far it's either Zion or the Troll wall (sun and sandstone or black death rock and rain?). I tend to prefer to be hard on myself so it might be Norway (that's why I'm not going to Yosemite - not becouse it's easy climbing, but becouse I enjoy it so much) -
'All life is suffering'.
Are you still alive pete? Actually I think it was 'Hulls best alpinist' (a bit like 'New Jerseys best alpinist). I've actually got a love hate relationship with alpinism. I love it and it hates me. I feel a bit like one of thoes people in an abusive relationship, I just can't help going back!
On the lecture front I'd love to do a tour of the US but so far I've only got the BD store in Salt Lake interested, although I might be doing a gig in Boulder with Alpinist magazine in the winter. Any advice on lectures would be appriecated!
Thanks again every one.
cheers
Andy
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passthepitonspete
Aug 31, 2003, 1:24 PM
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Why don't you do some real suffering, and go to Sam Ford Fjord on Baffin Island in the "spring", you know, when it's a pleasant -15C? That's where all the real hardmen go, the ones seeking serious abuse! I hear you even have to melt snow to make tea. I say .... how uncivilized.
Troll Wall? No thanks! I'm heading to the sunny south-facing walls of El Cap. Yeah, still alive, mate. Hope I live through Gulf Stream to tell the tale!
Workaholic wife, eh? Man, every aid climber needs one of those to buy him gear.
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andyk
Sep 1, 2003, 7:31 PM
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The only way I'll get to Baffin is if I take my family along. Although saying that my one year old is becoming a better free climber then his fat dad.
Have a nice time on Gulf Stream. Place a head and think of me...
Andy
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timpanogos
Sep 2, 2003, 1:41 AM
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Ok, here is one for you.
Last night we caught the 2nd to last shuttle out (10:30pm). After a long disappointing day and retreating with the dreaded haul out - I am exhausted. I had spent two nights in the dirt and one on the ledge and what sounded good?
grass!
I found some at a log pine lodge looking hotel, it was close to the road, but just out of the head lights (of cop cars) and it was like I had died and gone to heaven! Springdale is dead after 11 - not even any traffic, until 6:30am, pefect alarm clock and time to move before it gets too light and someone carts you off to jail for vagrancy
Oh yea, Pete, I have a guide book that lists as follows:
C is for Crumbly and Cutler (fisher towers)
E is for Earache and Entrada (arches) (moist brown sugar that gets in your ears)
M is for Madonna and Moenkopi (more people have nailed Madonna than this soft rock) - harder than cutler, and typically caps cutler formations (fisher towers)
N is for Nice and Navajo (Zion) "Face holds on Navajo can often be good enough to support weight, an added bonus not offered by the previous"
W is for Windgate (Indian Creek) Hard nice vertical parallel splitters.
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atg200
Sep 2, 2003, 1:12 PM
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That is awesome Chad - especially the Moenkopi part. I love Moenkopi - it is just really hard to get to since you have to climb 800' of Cutler first! Note that it is Wingate, not Windgate for sandstone.
For added fun, the layers are very different depending on where you are.
Zion is especially nice Navajo sandstone. Some other good examples of the formation are Wall Street/Potash Road area in Moab and Red Rocks near Vegas, though Red Rocks is a lot more featured than most Navajo.
Fisher Towers cutler is heinous and doesn't make too many crack systems. Mystery Towers cutler is probably heinous, but it is so caked in mud it is hard to see. Cedar Mesa cutler is pretty good and has nice splitters - Dreamspeaker and Texas Tower are good examples of these.
Entrada has three distinct types, all of which suck. The best is the upper steep formation, which is what the Tower of Babel, the Three Gossips, and the Penguins in Arches are made of. It sits on an entrada slickrock pedestal that is totally heinous and blank - this is what makes everything on the Organ so hard. Worst of all is the Dewey Bridge layer. This stuff is basically large blocks barely fused together by dirt - always entertaining. This is what makes the pedestal for the Penguins, or the base of Echo Pinnacle in Tusher Canyon.
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leec
Sep 12, 2003, 9:23 PM
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If you need a local partner just shout - happy to join you on an adventure.
PM me for somewhere to stay.
It'd be a laff to have someone that got half the jokes - surely the Kings English isn't that difficult?
Mind you coming from Hull you'll be half Norwegian anyway.
What routes do you want to get on?
And if Pete ever gets to Zion we'll all be down for trouble.
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passthepitonspete
Sep 15, 2003, 3:00 AM
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Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!
See you in November!
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atg200
Sep 16, 2003, 6:07 PM
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If you do come to Zion Pete, please do not do your usual circus stunts. The environment and walls in Zion can't take the abuse, and no one needs to jeopardize the good relationship climbers have with rangers. If you can't/won't climb the walls in good low impact style, stay in Yosemite.
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flamer
Sep 16, 2003, 7:57 PM
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I concur with Andrew! Besides who would you find to hump your gear around for you??
josh
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climbhigher
Sep 19, 2003, 12:32 AM
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Don't worry, There's this guy, his name is Ron, and he will shoot Pete off the wall if he tries anything out of the norm. That's if Ron can get by the park rangers to get into the park in the first place.
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flamer
Sep 19, 2003, 7:23 PM
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In reply to: Don't worry, There's this guy, his name is Ron, and he will shoot Pete off the wall if he tries anything out of the norm. That's if Ron can get by the park rangers to get into the park in the first place.
DUDE!! I'm laughing my ass off!!
You are so right, Ron will keep Pete in line!! In fact maybe I'll give him a call if Pete ever does make it to Zion....Just so he can be on the "look out".
josh
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