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jabtocrag
Sep 2, 2003, 6:54 PM
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I'm trying to put together a mini trad rack that will first and foremost, allow me to setup trad anchors for TRing. I just started climbing at places that don't offer much for webbing/static lines to be used, so I'm going to need some trad gear. Are there any recommendations as far as types/sizes of gear for this purpose? Keep in mind, this is for TR anchors only. Thanx.
Justin
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ricardol
Sep 2, 2003, 7:02 PM
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The actual trad gear depends on what you have availble for anchors ..
some hexes, tricams, and nuts would probably be enough
.. a few carabiners .. some locking ones ..
.. you'll also want webbing or cordalette for equalizing and extending the powerpoint over the edge of the cliff
-- ricardo
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jabtocrag
Sep 2, 2003, 7:11 PM
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In reply to: The actual trad gear depends on what you have availble for anchors .. some hexes, tricams, and nuts would probably be enough .. a few carabiners .. some locking ones .. .. you'll also want webbing or cordalette for equalizing and extending the powerpoint over the edge of the cliff -- ricardo
Of course the type of cracks available to anchor into will vary, however, as far as the hexes, tricams and nuts, I was more wondering if certain minimal sizes are recommended for safety purposes, or if a good assortment will do the trick. I suppose people place some very small gear while leading, so perhaps the same can be used as a TR anchor, if it fits the crack appropriately. Sound reasonable?
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redpoint73
Sep 2, 2003, 7:24 PM
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Maybe Stoppers size 5 and up. 1-4 are small for TR anchors. Maybe not even sizes 5 and 6. Supplement with largish hexes if you think you might run into bigger cracks, or Stopper sized cracks with parallel sides. It depends a lot on where you climb, but this combo will do you good in a lot of situations.
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ricardol
Sep 2, 2003, 7:24 PM
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i had a friend explain anchors to me this way (i think its from a book)
.. your goal is to get 10 points ..
beefy bolts on good rock are worth 5 points
small nuts on good rock are worth 3 points
medium - large nuts on good rock are worth 4 points
small cams on good rock are worth 3 points
medium to large cams on good rock are worth 4 points
.. modify the points you give to each piece depending on how good you judge your placement to be .. (or quality of rock)
.. add up your score until you get 10 or more points .. then your anchor should be safe.
(it usually takes 3 pieces to make an anchor)
in one case i had to use 5 pieces on an anchor since all the pieces were small nuts or small cams ..
-- since i dont know what size cracks you'll be building anchors on .. you should get a selection of gear ..
1 full set of hexes
1 full set of stoppers (dont use the aid-only sizes!)
a few tricams .. (pink, red, brown at least .. add more if you got more mula) ..
... with this gear you shold be able to build alot of different anchors .. as far as minimal sizes .. well, dont use the aid only gear .. the smaller gear is harder to use -- on a TR situation you have the luxury of looking around for a better (larger) placement..
-- ricardo
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texplorer
Sep 9, 2003, 8:09 PM
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If I get two good pieces that is all I need. They can be even my smallest nuts as long as they are good. I like to use cams since they can be multi-directional
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tanner
Sep 9, 2003, 8:49 PM
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Small bomber nuts are still bomber eg.# 5,6 are super solid if placed right 3 or more anchers is a good idea
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tahquitztwo
Sep 9, 2003, 9:00 PM
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Hey thanks for the "Points" system tip, Ricardol....much appreciated.....
when using gear for TRing anchors I've alway used minimum three pieces and equalized but that points idea is great! :wink:
One more point to add to building TR anchors....just like building an anchor on a multipitch climb...make sure it's SRENE(solid, redundant,equalized and no extension) :D
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tenn_dawg
Sep 9, 2003, 9:07 PM
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In reply to: I'm trying to put together a mini trad rack that will first and foremost, allow me to setup trad anchors for TRing. I just started climbing at places that don't offer much for webbing/static lines to be used, so I'm going to need some trad gear. Are there any recommendations as far as types/sizes of gear for this purpose? Keep in mind, this is for TR anchors only. Thanx. Justin
Look, the best advise I can give you is to NOT fall off the top of the cliff while you are hanging over trying to place trad gear.
To die durring a 100' lead fall onto a micro cam is one thing, but to die setting up a toprope is completely unacceptable.
Be careful.
Travis
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holmeslovesguinness
Sep 9, 2003, 9:35 PM
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I'm assuming you're a beginner (at least when it comes to placing gear) - in which case you may not be adept at judging just how bomber a placement actually is. I would recommend going for overkill on your toprope anchors - 3 pieces minimum, the more the better. Plus you'll get plenty of practice placing gear that way ;-)
As has been said - a set of stoppers, some hexes, and a few tri-cams would be a good place to start in terms of gear. Cams are nice, but obviously pricey...
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phreakdigital
Sep 9, 2003, 9:40 PM
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Smaller pieces can be much stronger than larger pieces depending on placement...trad gear is designed to take lead falls which incur many times the force applied by a TR so even the smallest gear is going to be bomber if placed correctly...the point system thing is whacked...its all about placement...which im not going to get into in this thread.
For what you are trying to do i would suggest getting a couple sets of nuts and maybe some hexes, but i wouldn't push the hexes. Although this set of gear may be difficult to protect parelell sided crack you will have the time to search around for places to put your nuts or hexes...cams cost significantly more than nuts but if you have the money and are motivated to buy them they will make your ability to protect different places more versitile.
I would suggest also 3 locking biners and a longish cordulette...around 15 ft...you can double it up if you want a shorter anchor. Make sure to set two pieces of gear and equalize them...if you cant find two bomber pieces then setting three isn't crazy...but you will have to equalize all three...hence the reason for the long cord...be careful around the top when testing gear because it can come out while your trying to set it and you can lose your balance and fall off unprotected.
Learning what is a solid placement is essential in this process also, search around for this info, but also be very wary...because its your life...make sure you feel good and also back up with secondary anchors.
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herm
Sep 10, 2003, 12:39 AM
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Get lots of webbing to equalize every thing, maybe 3 10' loops, or more, in addition to some smaller hunks. Lots of biners, 'specially lockers, too.
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climberpunk
Sep 10, 2003, 1:38 AM
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well for normal trad anchors 10 points[nice] or 3 pices is good, but when ur doing a TR, noone is there to watch the anchor. You'd have no idea if one of the nuts is coming loose or something, especially if you plan to work the route for a while. For this reason, you should have at least 5 pices, and make the anchor multi-directional to avoid dislodging the anchor-4 for downward pull and one up. And make sure to check the anchor every time you summit
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pixelguru
Sep 10, 2003, 1:55 AM
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Go to your local crag when others are TRing with trad anchors and see what's working for them. Heck, take notes, draw pictures or take photos if an experienced climber rigs a particularly elegant anchor. Note what pro is working well on your local type of rock, and what sizes are being used and use that as a starting point.
My personal handy TR kit includes a full set of DMM nuts, 5 med to large hexs, and 5 BD cams (yes, I'm buying them one at a time when budget permits).
Just start buying biners and don't stop for a while - at least 12 cheap plain Ds and 6 locking Ds (plus some nicer lockers for belay devices). If you want to feel extra safe, buy two fat steel lockers to run the rope through - it's also kind to your rope.
Buy more webbing than you ever think you'll need, then buy some more. It's cheap and it won't go to waste. Round it out with 6 long sewn runners and a cordelette.
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bustinmins
Sep 10, 2003, 6:18 PM
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I would get the book Climbing Anchors and More Climbing Anchors. In these books the authors give you good safe procedures and concepts for beginners. These concepts include "SRENE": Safe/Redundent/Equalized and No Extension. You will use three or four points that utilize single cams or multiple placements of passive/active pro based on the security of the placement. That will be based on the reliability of each piece set. How do you judge this? Experience and knowledge. What type of gear you'll place depends on the area in which you climb. These books will help you set up the gear with the right mindset and know-how. However - I would place an extensive amount of gear on the ground first and have an experienced friend or guide judge you on your anchors and placements. Please do this on the ground before you decide to have someone's life(yours included) hanging on your knowledge and experience. I'll be the first one to admit that I'm not KING KONG of the rock but I do know what a good placement looks like and how to set up a safe anchor. I may not be quick but it will be safe. The whole anchor concept isn't hard to learn or grasp but it does take practice. Keep it safe, SRENE and have some fun!
Get the books - do the reading - place the gear and get an experienced persons opinion before you set your gear.
Peace,
JD
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vertical_reality
Sep 10, 2003, 6:34 PM
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Just a word of caution...
If there is alot of traffic at the top of the route you may not want to use cams or other pieces of expensive gear.
I climb mostly at Great Falls, VA and the hiking path goes along the top of the cliffs. Gear has been stolen from anchors by people looking for a cool souvenir... even while people are climbing on them.
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