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ptone


Jul 13, 2003, 11:12 PM
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If you're just starting, I'd say the ATC (or like device), it is simple and versatile, and provides a solid catch. Rapping is smooth and as you start to lead it is great for rope control. If you are smaller maybe the ATC-XP or one like it--the slots or grooves will make it easier to lock it off.

The reverso is a great tool, but a bit more complicated, has a softer catch which isn't as good for tr, and needs an extra biner for the auto-mode. It is definitely the sht for trad, multipitch and ice, but personally I think the ATC design is a bombproof first device.

The grigri is not a great device if you only have one. Can't rap on two ropes, so cleaning the anchors etc is a drag, it is trickier to belay lead with it, and for longer falls or trad you have to be really dynamic yourself...

That said, if you keep climbing and expanding your range, you could well end up with all three in the end;^)

peace,
-p


robbovius


Jul 14, 2003, 4:45 AM
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[quote="petsfed]
If you're getting your first device, get a tube device (BD ATC, Trango Pyramid, Petzl Reverso, etc.) as it will teach you everything you need to know about belaying, but not overcomplicate with mechanical devices.
I agree. I was taught to belay on a grigri first, (had an excellent instructor) and THEN went to an ATC, but now I think it should have been the other way round, simply because belaying with the ATC ensures that you'll develop good belaying habits right of the bat.

you can take ATC methods to the grigri, but not the otehr way 'round.

get an ATC, and find a competent instructor.


bumblesbounce


Sep 14, 2003, 6:11 PM
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ATC - I learned on one, it's good. I HATE GRI GRIS! I tried to belay with one and I don't like the fact of automatic locking and getting the slack is harder because of it - ATC's all the way!


pinkamy


Sep 14, 2003, 6:25 PM
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ATC is my advice- without question. :wink:


mustclimb69


Sep 15, 2003, 7:45 AM
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Dont be STUPIDbuy the ATC XP Not the ATC
I sell climbing gear and the 2 friction modes are extremely usefull and easy to use for a beginner!!
PM for clarity


kimmyt


Sep 15, 2003, 9:12 AM
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[quote="robboviusI agree. I was taught to belay on a grigri first, (had an excellent instructor) and THEN went to an ATC, but now I think it should have been the other way round, simply because belaying with the ATC ensures that you'll develop good belaying habits right of the bat.

you can take ATC methods to the grigri, but not the otehr way 'round.

get an ATC, and find a competent instructor.
I have taken two beginner courses. One was offered through an outing club at the uni I attended and the other was through a indoor gym. The first class spent much more time teaching the proper technique, spent time explaining the belay device, the physics of it and all. It tought on an ATC and this allowed us to develop our belaying skills.

A year or so later (just this last week in fact!) I took the second course at a rock gym, in order to reteach myself because I hadn't been able to continue rock climbing that often. This course used a Gri-gri (in fact, it's the only belay device they use at the place) and the people I was with weren't given the quality instruction I was given the first time. Because of the gri-gri's locking capability, they tended to belay wrong, wouldn't anchor, etc. I would trust them to belay me with the gri-gri, because of the device itself, but I would not under any circumstances trust them to belay me with a non-locking belay device such as an ATC. Not unless they got more training. So that's my two cents.

K.


Partner taino


Sep 15, 2003, 9:41 AM
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[quote="robboviusI agree. I was taught to belay on a grigri first, (had an excellent instructor) and THEN went to an ATC, but now I think it should have been the other way round, simply because belaying with the ATC ensures that you'll develop good belaying habits right of the bat.

you can take ATC methods to the grigri, but not the otehr way 'round.

get an ATC, and find a competent instructor.

I have taken two beginner courses. One was offered through an outing club at the uni I attended and the other was through a indoor gym. The first class spent much more time teaching the proper technique, spent time explaining the belay device, the physics of it and all. It tought on an ATC and this allowed us to develop our belaying skills.

A year or so later (just this last week in fact!) I took the second course at a rock gym, in order to reteach myself because I hadn't been able to continue rock climbing that often. This course used a Gri-gri (in fact, it's the only belay device they use at the place) and the people I was with weren't given the quality instruction I was given the first time. Because of the gri-gri's locking capability, they tended to belay wrong, wouldn't anchor, etc. I would trust them to belay me with the gri-gri, because of the device itself, but I would not under any circumstances trust them to belay me with a non-locking belay device such as an ATC. Not unless they got more training. So that's my two cents.

K.
Agreed.

Here in NYC, ALL of the gyms force you to use their gri-gris - supposedly, they're "fool-proof" and will catch you in case of an inattentive or poorly-trained belayer.

They do not always catch you. Take my word on this.

I will climb with someone indoors on a gri-gri, but unless I know - and not just by their telling me - that they can use an ATC I won't climb with them outside of the City/outside on rock. My two current partners had to take an ATC-specific belay training class before I would climb with them outside.

However, it's your life. Do what you will.

T


punk


Sep 15, 2003, 9:49 AM
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I'm buying my first belay device and I was wondering which kind to get. Whether I should get a figure 8 or not and also which brands are the best. Hopefully nothing thats way too expensive.

Thanks
I made the Mini Beginners guide just for pp like you it is all there
READ!!!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


bumblesbounce


Sep 21, 2003, 7:29 AM
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What is an ATP XP? :?: :?: The more complicated things you add for the beginer... the harder it is going to be for the beginer.


Partner one900johnnyk


Sep 21, 2003, 8:23 AM
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Reverso. smoother and more versatile than an ATC.

this is the best advice. four bucks more than an atc and in a few months you'll just want to upgrade from your atc anyway.. simple and in my opinion safer, since it is "smoother" which helps you pull out the slack more quickly. i was born to rock


drkodos


Sep 21, 2003, 8:29 AM
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Reverso: Crap for noobs.


oldeclimber


Sep 21, 2003, 9:16 AM
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Stick with the ATC. Eventually, when you leave the gym, you will be using an ATC. Look around your gym at the more experienced climbers who are working on routes that are set up as lead climbs. I'll bet that most of them are using ATC's. I won't say that I have never seen a Reverso's at the crag, but they are more rare. I do see a few GriGri's out there but the ATC is by far the most popular. Learn to use them all. The knowledge may come in handy some day.


canadian_usc


Sep 21, 2003, 9:36 AM
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Peltz Reverso, I really like mine


meataxe


Sep 21, 2003, 12:50 PM
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Dont be STUPIDbuy the ATC XP Not the ATC
I sell climbing gear and the 2 friction modes are extremely usefull and easy to use for a beginner!!
PM for clarity

I bought one and it works OK for me. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference, the teeth are not really aggressive. I suppose it is a little easier to lock off, and you can always reverse it--it is then like a traditional tube.

Maybe if you are belaying with a larger weight difference, it would help.


brutusofwyde


Sep 21, 2003, 4:55 PM
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Maybe if you are belaying with a larger weight difference, it would help.

Or on skinny icy ropes.


climb_plastic


Oct 18, 2003, 1:35 AM
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I tried the ATC XP. In most cases the extra friction part is not totally necessary but it's really nice to have especially with the thin ropes. It does exactly what is advertised and it's noticeably different. Lowering of a climber is easier to control and holding a hanging climber is much easier. You get this control without affecting feeding during belay so I'm not sure why you would use the non-tooth end. Also the catches feel much more firm...you still have to have the brake hand down or it won't catch though. Overall, it's much nicer to use.


dynoguy


Oct 18, 2003, 5:23 AM
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I'd say go with the Trango Pyramid. Its so smooth on the rope and I have never had kinking problems with it belaying or rappeling with it.


grat


Oct 20, 2003, 10:19 AM
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I bought the ATC-XP as my first belay device (I still use it). It is only a few bucks more and you can chose how much friction to use. That is what I liked about it. The extra friction isn't always necessary, but comes in handy when belaying heavier climbers and in other situations.

The ATC (and similar devices) are very easy to use. Almost every climber has one or has owned one, so if you aren't sure how to use it correctly, then you can ask another climber and they can most likely show you how.

Just to let you know, I've heard great things about the reverso, but some of the features you won't use until you begin to do more advanced climbing. The decision is up to you, but what ever you chose, be safe.


bustinmins


Oct 20, 2003, 10:50 AM
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I have owned the standard BD ATC, the BD ATC-XP, the Petzl Gri-Gri and the Petzl Reverso.

The Petzl Reverso is my favorite because it does feed rope nicer than either of the ATC's and allows for a smoother rappel. I think that this device is more effective in the belay lock as well. I really feel that it grips the rope better and makes a more secure hold than either of the ATC's. If you think you'll ever climb trad, then get this device. It is the best device for trad and all around use. One nice thing about this device is that, when properly used, it can auto-lock if you are belaying from above. However, you'll need to learn some special skills if you ever do this but it is a VERY nice option to have.

The BD ATC is a great device...and it is the most popular. However, I think the XP works the best out of the two. The XP has a little more braking action than the standard ATC. For those that would like to venture into ice climbing - my hard water climbing friends say that the braking side(the teeth) really clears away some ice. Rapping with the ATC is easy and the ATC-XP is nice too. If you do Rap with the XP you have the option of using the non-toothed side or the toothed side depending on how much brake assistance you need or want as you step over the side of the ledge(a bonus for newbies). This does directly effect the smoothness of the Rap and the effeciency of the feed. On the rappel, I have noticed that the XP doesn't heat up as much as the standard ATC.

The Gri-Gri is a great very expensive belay device that usually doesn't go on my harness unless I know that I'll be belaying a person that will weight the rope a lot or if I'm going to gym climbing(yuck). It is very easy to use - just be sure you don't use it for Trad work. It is perfect for sport or gym climbing. However - it costs about 70 bucks too. However, in comparison to the other devices, it is much more decisive in its grab. You can get pretty lazy with this device but it is very safe. This could be a plus to you - I don't know. You do need to be very careful of this device - especially when lowering your partner. The device, when improperly used, can send your partner on a screaming descent. :) However, it is very easily tamed and personally - I like to use it. However - the negatives for this device are: Weight, takes up space on the gear loop and really only has one function when either a reverso or atc will do both jobs(rapping/belaying) and weigh only a fraction of the Gri-gri.

Either way - all of the tools mentioned are good devices - I own them all and prefer the reverso as my preferred belay/rap device.

Have a great time deciding - hope this helps you make up your mind.

James


bustinmins


Oct 20, 2003, 10:54 AM
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Stick with the ATC. Eventually, when you leave the gym, you will be using an ATC. Look around your gym at the more experienced climbers who are working on routes that are set up as lead climbs. I'll bet that most of them are using ATC's. I won't say that I have never seen a Reverso's at the crag, but they are more rare. I do see a few GriGri's out there but the ATC is by far the most popular. Learn to use them all. The knowledge may come in handy some day.

If you go to the crag and that crag is a trad area - the Reverso's are everywhere.


dlintz


Oct 20, 2003, 11:28 AM
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My Reverso goes with me everywhere, trad or gym. My Trango Jaws is just collecting dust now.


halcyon


Oct 20, 2003, 12:06 PM
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REVERSO!!!!!!1111111

I borrowed an ATC XP for the first few months of my climbing, and finally bought a reverso. At first they look scary, but read the instructions (don't ask the guy at REI for help.. . He wont.) and play around with it a bit before taking it out. I love mine. Autoblocking rocks.


calell


Oct 23, 2003, 8:18 AM
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If I was you I would go for an ATC, I think they are good all round


cthcrockclimber


Oct 23, 2003, 8:23 AM
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havent been pleased nor dissapointed with my trang b-52

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