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rvega
Oct 8, 2003, 10:12 PM
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So I just bought some new Moccasins (size 4.5) and they hurt so bad I can't wear there on a route for more than 15 minutes. I can barely edge in them without wanting to cry or scream curse words. When I was at the store the guy told me that these were actually too BIG and should really get 4's. I declined and got the 4.5s any ways. He gave a look that said, "obviously you're not a hard core climber." I've been climbing a long time and have always wondered... is the pain is really necessary.
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trbrts
Oct 8, 2003, 10:16 PM
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yes. besides, they'll stretch. eventually.
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dynoguy
Oct 8, 2003, 10:22 PM
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Its all personal preference. where the size that you like most.
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climbsomething
Oct 8, 2003, 10:22 PM
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No, they really don't, but IMO, it's really a matter of preference. Some climbers believe in/like/prefer/don't mind the grueling pain of aggressive downsizing, some run screaming (sometimes literally). Whatever works for you. If you'd have been more comfortable with a pair of size 5s, that's alright- it's YOUR feet. It's not a right or wrong kinda thing.
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mtnjohn
Oct 8, 2003, 10:23 PM
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NO!
Shoes should fit.
tight, but not painful.
15 minutes is not a long time, even on sport routes.
if your shoes fit so tight that you feel like you're in some inquisitors torture device then its ridiculous.
Theres enough extraneous discomfort associated with climbing
your feet should be quasi-comfy!
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dontfall
Oct 8, 2003, 10:23 PM
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The shoes might take a while to break in, after that your feet should feel better in them. If not, I don't think you'll be able to get a refund at the store since it's climbing gear, you could try to sell them on rc.com or ebay.
Chris
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philbox
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Oct 8, 2003, 10:28 PM
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Climbing shoes need to be tight that is for sure but I also totally believe that they need to be comfortable as well. Of course the level of comfort depends on what it is you are doing. If they are painful then you need to go up a half size or even a full size.
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holmeslovesguinness
Oct 8, 2003, 10:30 PM
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Kinda depends on your own individual pain threshold and what level you are climbing at. I'm not into pain and I don't climb very hard, so I never go down more than a full size anymore, it's just not worth it to me.
Something else to consider is maybe trying a different model shoe. I have kind of funky feet, and I tend to stick with basic shoes that have rounded toe boxes, they are a lot more comfortable for me.
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collegekid
Oct 8, 2003, 10:32 PM
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moccasyms stretch at least a full size.
the more i climb, the more i prefer having comfortably-fitting shoes...i find optimum performance occurs when the shoes are only so tight that my feet don't slide in them. As long as the shoes fit well enough that your toes don't lose contact with the side while edging, they are good. (it really sucks when your toes are sliding around the inside of the shoe)
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roughster
Oct 8, 2003, 10:36 PM
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roughster moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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rvega
Oct 8, 2003, 10:36 PM
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Actually I've tried lots of shoes and because I have such small and narrow feet few shoes fit. These seem to fit everywhere perfectly except my big toes which after taking off the shoe are dented on the top. However I wanted a more aggressive shoe than my other lace ups.
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meataxe
Oct 8, 2003, 11:00 PM
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I'm replying to a shoe thread... Please shoot me. :P
Anyway, I recently got some Boreal Zen's which are an intermediate velcro shoe. My understanding of good fit with these types of shoes is that it should be tight enough that the toes are slightly curled to maximize edging power.
The Zens fit my feet well (the shoe guy said I'm the first person in two months he's seen fit Zens properly). I tried a 5-10 velcro that fit so tight I literally could not bear weight in them.
If you want to straighten your toes in your shoes, you should probably get a lace-up with a stiffer sole.
My shoes are breaking in now (or maybe my feet are breaking in?) after maybe 8 sessions. Hopefully they break in a bit more.
Also, foot powder helps them slide on and off--recommended.
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pato
Oct 8, 2003, 11:17 PM
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In reply to: Do shoes really need to hurt this bad?
yes they do, you'll just get used to it!!!!!!!!!!
i buy the smallest shoe i can get into :D
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xcire
Oct 8, 2003, 11:30 PM
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Its amazing how many shoe are for sale on ebay because store employees talked the customers into a size to small. I think for your first pair if you error on the big side who cares. By the time your ready to get your second pair youll know more about climbing and what to look for
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dlintz
Oct 8, 2003, 11:44 PM
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rvega,
You never did mention your regular street shoe size, hopefully it's not size 8 or something. The mocassyms do stretch quite a bit. Try to tough it out a while and see if they'll work out, otherwise sell them on ebay as "Prestretched for your comfort!"
And of course you know that climbing shoe salespeople are the most hardcore, perhaps he was trying to "bring you into the fold". 8)
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inflight
Oct 9, 2003, 12:07 AM
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As a trad climber on routes up to 5.11c face, slab and crack, I find snug shoes but not uncomfortably tight shoes work best. I wear shoes that are snug but do not bend or knuckle my toes. I have shoes that allow my toes to sit flat in the toe box. Regardless of brand, I choose the shoe that fits my foot type - wide duck feet. My sensitivity to the rock is not comprimised by the lack of a knuckly tight fit. I make sure my shoe is not so loose that it allows my foot to roll when hard edging or so tight that it hurts to plant my toes in a thin crack.
I have a couple of Boreal Aces and old skool high tops and it took about a year to break in the Aces. The high tops obtained used and are my favorite pair. They fit and function the best for me.
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curt
Oct 9, 2003, 12:18 AM
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There is really no need for your climbing shoes to be painful in this day and age. The pair of shoes that I climb in most of the time now (Mad Rock Phoenix shoes) I can keep on for hours at a time. And they still perform just fine on reasonably hard climbs and boulder problems.
Curt
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fireyxplosion
Oct 9, 2003, 12:27 AM
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no
you dont
a small amount of pain is ok.
but it is personal preferance. I had a situation similar to this. I could not walk, or edge. It was rediculous. Some of the best climbers i see in my gym wear shoes that are the same size as their regular shoes. I now shoes that i am quite comfortable in and climb fine. At first, the should be a little small so they streach into shape. There should be no gaps anywhere in the shoe, and should curl your toes
IT IS PERSONAL PREFERANCE
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climb_plastic
Oct 9, 2003, 12:37 AM
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You shouldn't have it excruciatingly painful that you can't climb. If you can wiggle your toes though, then it's too big. The problem is that usually when you have a shoe that is tight it also hurts.
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norskagent
Oct 9, 2003, 1:48 AM
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you said you've been climbing a long time; you should know what's right for you then. I think a super tight fit will stretch more than a not so tight fit, but they will both end up fitting about the same because you're not stretching the bigger one as much.
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earlethesquirrel
Oct 9, 2003, 2:38 AM
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No, the pain is not really necessary. Give the shoes to your girlfriend (assuming you have one) or just sell them to someone else.
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cragmasterp
Oct 9, 2003, 2:59 AM
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if you want to speed up the break in period, put your shoes on then get them wet. Now leave them on until they are dry and they will fit perfectly. (You may need some type of pain killers to complete this process - try cheap wine and whatever leftover perscription pain killers you can dig out of your medicine cabinet.)
after enduring this procedure once I now buy my shoes comfy-style.
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dlintz
Oct 9, 2003, 3:30 AM
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In reply to: (You may need some type of pain killers to complete this process - try cheap wine and whatever leftover perscription pain killers you can dig out of your medicine cabinet.)
Hmm, your methods intrique me. Time to buy more shoes.
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rcaret
Oct 9, 2003, 3:44 AM
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No , And not all shoes stretch, Un lined stretch and lined very little or not at all , If you climb allot your feet will get accustomed to tighter shoes so as you wear one set out the next set may need to be tighter , I stoped climbing for some time and had to start agin with a larger shoe .
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pico23
Oct 9, 2003, 4:08 AM
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In reply to: So I just bought some new Moccasins (size 4.5) and they hurt so bad I can't wear there on a route for more than 15 minutes. I can barely edge in them without wanting to cry or scream curse words. When I was at the store the guy told me that these were actually too BIG and should really get 4's. I declined and got the 4.5s any ways. He gave a look that said, "obviously you're not a hard core climber." I've been climbing a long time and have always wondered... is the pain is really necessary.
Depends on the climbing but my smallest shoe is only a half size smaller than my properly fitting shoes. By properly fitting I mean a shoe that after it's stretched I comfortably have no dead space in the shoe. A half size down means my toes are slightly scrunched but not in serious pain.
There is a point where you start to lose benefit and where the pain interferes with your climbing performance. I probably could gain more benefit if I climbed overhanging sport routes by going with a shoe that was 3 sizes too small but for trad and easy bouldering I prefer a shoe that I can leave on for an entire pitch or longer.
To answer your own question you'll need to gradually get a bigger shoe until you notice a performance falloff.
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