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El Cap Jugging Record
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dingus


Oct 22, 2003, 3:07 PM
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El Cap Jugging Record
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For all you big wall aficianados and wannabes, hardmen and women, and posers too...

does anyone know what the record time is for jugging from the bottom to the top of El Cap may be?

Just curious is there is such a record...

DMT


flamer


Oct 22, 2003, 3:14 PM
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It probably belongs to a caver....
josh


dingus


Oct 22, 2003, 3:15 PM
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Good point. Old bud of mine in Tennessee is a caver. I'll ask him too.

DMT


socalclimber


Oct 22, 2003, 3:42 PM
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I have never heard of anyone doing this. I'm sure it's been done. Post the the answer if anyone figures it out.

Robert (Hi Dingus)


strider


Oct 22, 2003, 4:18 PM
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I would imagine that the second of any of the famous speed climbers would quailfy. Unless you are talking about dropping one giant rope from the top, would be be a pain in the ass to haul up the ledges.

-n


salami


Oct 22, 2003, 5:03 PM
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I believe it is around the 1.5 hour mark. Not sure if it was one big rope or a few strung together.


gawd


Oct 22, 2003, 5:47 PM
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hans florine when he and yuji did the nose for the speed record jugged the entire thing. so i would imagine that he holds the record.


rizzuh


Oct 22, 2003, 5:55 PM
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i dunno what the record is... but i totally know how to beat it. You could make a 3000ft top rope from the top... at the bottom end the climber would tie in and on the other side... you could drop a huge weight from the top which would sling-shot the climber to the top within a few minutes. :lol: DEFINITELY GOING ON MASTERS OF STONE 6

rock on


squish


Oct 22, 2003, 7:20 PM
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In reply to:
DEFINITELY GOING ON MASTERS OF STONE 6
Either that, or Jackass 2.


rogueclimber


Oct 22, 2003, 7:30 PM
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In reply to:
hans florine when he and yuji did the nose for the speed record jugged the entire thing. so i would imagine that he holds the record.
No Gawd, just to clarify Hans and Yuji simile climbed most of the Nose. Cheers!


bigwalling


Oct 22, 2003, 7:56 PM
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you could drop a huge weight from the top which would sling-shot the climber to the top within a few minutes. DEFINITELY GOING ON MASTERS OF STONE 6

That would be sweet! I think I would want to try it on some small cliffs first. It would have to be really steep to be anywhere near safe. Maybe the leaning tower?


dirtbagginit


Oct 22, 2003, 8:29 PM
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... you could drop a huge weight from the top which would sling-shot the climber to the top within a few minutes.
and leave a mile long man-smear up the face - people would be so pissed!


organic


Oct 22, 2003, 9:38 PM
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has anyone ever mooned people from El Cap?


dirko


Oct 22, 2003, 9:57 PM
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A girl I know, Kelly Simard, was dating Brian McCray a few years back, and jugged all of El Cap while he and Hans set a speed record on Flight of the Albatross. Their time of 14:50 could certainly be beaten on an easier route...

I think Beth Rodden jugged Salathe when Tommy did it, but that was still 19 hours.

Did Dean Potter's partner jug during his 24-hour Regular Route/Freerider link-up? Did he climb it in sub-15 hours?

P.S. Of course jugging the Zodiac is not neccessarily jugging the Nose, which is not neccessarily jugging Sea of Dreams!


dirko


Oct 22, 2003, 9:59 PM
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In reply to:
I believe it is around the 1.5 hour mark. Not sure if it was one big rope or a few strung together.

Gag me with a spoon.


timstich


Oct 22, 2003, 10:27 PM
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Good point. Old bud of mine in Tennessee is a caver. I'll ask him too.

DMT

Author Tim Cahill and some cavers threw a rope off El Cap once and rappelled and jugged it back up. Most of the speed records for obscene jugs were made in Golondrinas cave in Mexico. That's about an 1100 foot jug and the time it took the record holder to ascend it, who I recall was a woman, was under 20 minutes. Might have even been 14. It usually takes people 1.5 - 4 hours to do it.


Partner euroford


Oct 23, 2003, 6:57 AM
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how the heck could you rap on that much rope?? wouldn't it lock off yer ATC?? like a firemans belay? it would weigh hundreds of pounds. i guess a rap rack would do the reverse, you wouldn't be able to lift the rope of braking.

i guess maybe you could use a petzl stop or other bobin type device.

haha, three people would have to lift the rope so you'd have slack to rig...


dingus


Oct 23, 2003, 9:09 AM
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Think of it this way... I can't remember who stated this, Charles Cole maybe, Middendorf, Florine... just don't remember. But the substance is:

if you are taking more than 5 - 10 minutes to jug and clean a pitch, you're freaking slow! (I'm freaking WAY SLOW by this measure). That would be 2.5 hours non-stop at 5 minutes per pitch, give or take, with cleaning.

Make it s straight, non-stop jug and put some mutant master on the thing and I believe a sub-1-hour jug of El Cap has to be possible. 100 feet a minute nonstop puts this person at the top in 30 minutes.

Just not by me.

Last time I jugged fixed ropes I got an attack of vertigo, sprayed puke all over the place and rapped to the ground, where I lay in a near comatose state for more than two hours.

Cheers ya bastards!
DMT


iamthewallress


Oct 23, 2003, 12:24 PM
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In reply to:
A girl I know, Kelly Simard, was dating Brian McCray a few years back, and jugged all of El Cap while he and Hans set a speed record on Flight of the Albatross. Their time of 14:50 could certainly be beaten on an easier route...

I think Beth Rodden jugged Salathe when Tommy did it, but that was still 19 hours.

Did Dean Potter's partner jug during his 24-hour Regular Route/Freerider link-up? Did he climb it in sub-15 hours?

P.S. Of course jugging the Zodiac is not neccessarily jugging the Nose, which is not neccessarily jugging Sea of Dreams!

By this measure, I'd be an El Cap record holder! :D Alas, I'm sure that plenty of us chickies have gone up the big stone in the #2 position much faster than this.


timstich


Oct 23, 2003, 3:18 PM
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how the heck could you rap on that much rope?? wouldn't it lock off yer ATC?? like a firemans belay? it would weigh hundreds of pounds. i guess a rap rack would do the reverse, you wouldn't be able to lift the rope of braking.

i guess maybe you could use a petzl stop or other bobin type device.

haha, three people would have to lift the rope so you'd have slack to rig...

Typically to rappell extremely long ropes, people will use rappelling racks, sometimes even extra long ones to handle the heat. But even microracks can be used on something as long as El Cap or Golondrinas. A friend of mine reported good performance on 9 mm static rope with a microrack. You just use fewer bars at the top and use the hyperbar to do fine control. A water bottle to facilitate cooling is also used by some. But no, an ATC would get very hot and would be a bad choice I'm sure.


timstich


Oct 23, 2003, 3:22 PM
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...
Last time I jugged fixed ropes I got an attack of vertigo, sprayed puke all over the place and rapped to the ground, where I lay in a near comatose state for more than two hours...

Try jugging with my double bungie cord rope walker with chest pully and mini bungie pully. It's pretty damn efficient. You just need to pace yourself doing those insanely long climbs. I puked my guts out in a rope climbing competition once as well. Just didn't get the pace down.


rizzuh


Oct 23, 2003, 4:00 PM
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i think my sling shot theory still stands true.


grigriese


Oct 23, 2003, 4:36 PM
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hans florine when he and yuji did the nose for the speed record jugged the entire thing. so i would imagine that he holds the record.

Then who climbed it?

They simul-climbed.


passthepitonspete


Nov 12, 2003, 11:00 AM
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When rapping El Cap and other huge walls like Thor, cavers usually use custom-made rappel racks [with moveable and removeable brake bars] that are three to four feet long. Trying to rappel 3000' of rope is like trying to rap a steel rebar! You need a sophisticated lifting system just to pull the rope up so you can put it through your rack!

Damn straight it'll be a caver who owns the jugging record. Cavers - pale anemic offspring of the underworld with nothing better to do with their time than perfect their jugging systems - kick ass on a fixed line.

If you post the question on a caving board, you're sure to get the answer.

You can find all the jugging speed records on the NSS Website. Note: Most of these jugging speed records are done indoors, with the caver jugging a fixed rope that passes through a pulley, while someone else lets the rope out through a rappel device.

In my experience, this is a bit easier to do that to climb a fixed rope as you get some mechanical advantage by merely "pulling down" the fixed rope, rather than necessarily lifting your body.

So don't believe the indoor times translate to outdoor.

On a low-angle face, any climber using a Yosemite system could beat me, but on the free-hanging stuff, my Frog is pretty darn fast. When I'm fit, I can crank off two hundred feet in [barely] under three minutes.

But a Ropewalker system is faster still, though it's a bugger to build, and even worse to put on and take off the rope. I can clip on and jug the whole pitch on my Frog in the time it takes to clip on a Ropewalker. As for crossing rebelays under a waterfall in the dark on a Ropewalker? No thanks!

Tandem climbing of long pitches on fixed caving ropes is routine.


roadguy


Nov 12, 2003, 11:52 AM
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while this might not be about the fastest jugging record...it does follow a similar thread...that of vertical speed ascents and decents w/o ever having to climb.

A few years back..probably more given my memory lapses these days, some cavers were practicing rapping and jugging lines they dropped off of the Nose area. Mike Hatchett and company had just gotten done filming Rick Lovelaces solo speed climb of the Zodiac for one of his videos.
They had been watching these guys practice going up and down their lines, so Mike takes his 16mm cam with a nice big zoom and zooms in on this one guy starting the long rap down their lines...as he's watching he sees the guy accelerate...and accelerate...realizing the guy is now in freefall mode. He went all the way to the deck but he did, he hit below El Cap Towers. He hit the wall and sorta went to pieces..according to Werner it was one of the grizliset body recoveries he had been on.

The point being I guess is that no good can come from doing stunts like this. scariest moments for me on walls always seemed to be when I was ether rapping or jugging...skill has little to do with it once you have mastered the nuances of both, its all on your equipment. Again this is a bit off the topic but it still falls within the can of worms of speed jugging or rapping for its sake alone.

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