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muncher
Oct 23, 2003, 1:48 AM
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Last weekend I witnessed some of the most scary climbing I have ever seen. Best of all, it was all carried out on wall packed with nice big shiny ringbolts.
First up, we get to the crag and find we have it to ourselves (not all that uncommon) but within twenty minutes there is more people there than I have ever seen before, all wanting to do the same half dozen or so routes on the main wall.
After much bumbling around a couple of climbers start up a route to the right of us, after bouldering through the start and with a bolt a little below her feet a girl starts freaking out trying to find the next bolt, her "experienced" partner then offers to climb up the route next to her and try and spot the bolts from there. When I figue out how f#$king pathetic these people are I advise them that the route goes mainly on cams (just like the guidebook suggests). Since the leader neither had any cams or had ever placed any her experienced partner decided he would climb up and give her some and that placing them was easy enough. Luckily for the rest of us she was able to back off.
Number two, the same girl, obvisouly quite strong but with absolutely no idea what she is doing climbs through the crux of another route and then gets way off route and now is in the situation where she could deck out from about 12 metres up. The route is a straight line marked by many shiny ring bolts. The route finding really isn't that hard. After much messing about she eventually was able to down climb and get back on route to clip the bolt after which she lowered.
Number three, same wall, one route to the left, a nice little arete with a bouldery little crux and a bit of a pumpy clip. The girl climbs through the crux ok, located at the second or third bolt, can't make the clip (at this stage she is only a metre or two above the last bolt) and decides to keep moving up to find better holds. Thing is though, once she gets the good holds she starts completely freaking out and screaming her head off before taking a big whipper swinging around the arete and injuring her ankle in the process.
Whilst I am not against people taking risks and attempting dangerous climbs it ruined my day to see people needlessly putting themselves in dangerous situations. The crag was covered with bolts, the guide is very accurate yet these people managed to completely fu%^up every route they tried. All it takes is a little galnce at the guide and a few minutes to study the route from the ground. It is not that hard to follow a line of ringbolts or to look up at a route and figure out that ok there is the first bolt, I can't see any more so maybe i will check the guide or take some gear. The other point is it is important to know how and when to back off. Skipping clips is fine as long as you are high enough, down low you are often better to back off and try again later.
I can only assume these people climb most of the time in the gym where they can follow the red holds or whatever. I just can't believe none of them have died yet. It is idiots like these that give the sport a bad rap.
Sorry about the rant but that just really pissed me off last weekend.
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curt
Oct 23, 2003, 2:11 AM
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Lesson to be learned here:
You can't cheat Darwin, so don't try. Hehe.
Curt
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muncher
Oct 23, 2003, 2:17 AM
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I was thinking that at the time, should I give them some advice and try and help them out thereby interfereing with the process of natural selection? It is a hard decision, on one hand I don't want to rescue one of the fu$%ing idiots but on the other hand........
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hello_heino
Oct 23, 2003, 2:19 AM
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Heino looks down on sport climbers because their routes usually end after one half rope-length pitch while his continue upwards.
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blueeyedclimber
Oct 23, 2003, 2:20 PM
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Although I do not feel like I am a sport climber (I love it all), I do love it. We are not all like that. I think sport attracts more of those than trad because there is a lot less thinking involved, which means some people do even less thinking than is required. You also see a lot more inexperienced people trying their hand at sport than at trad. People just need to realize that no matter what climbing you are doing, that if you make a mistake and you are high up, you could die!
Josh
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climb_plastic
Oct 23, 2003, 5:52 PM
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Wow! You haven't been called a troll yet. That's because you're a trad climber and you're criticizing sport climbers so that's OK. The troll police won't ding you on this because they're all trad climbers. To prove my point try this...go on the trad forum and post the subject, "Reasons why sport climbers hate trad a..holes" and bring up some of the stupid things you've seen trad climbers do.
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asaph
Oct 23, 2003, 5:57 PM
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cant we all just get along?
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climbsomething
Oct 23, 2003, 5:59 PM
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:roll:
Look, I see lots of gumby bullshit at my crags. If it's not necessarily unsafe with deathfall or even injury potential, just assbackwards bumbly stuff, I let it go. If it looks truly sketchy, then I'll say something.
I like to talk smack as much as the next guy (actually... probly more :P ), but something about taking the idle crag gossip to these forums is stupid.
As I overheard one gumby shout to the other, "oh just step on the bolt" I leaned over to my partner and whispered, "I should start a thread on rc.com about this, huh??" And we chuckled.
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inflight
Oct 23, 2003, 6:06 PM
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In reply to: I was thinking that at the time, should I give them some advice and try and help them out thereby interfereing with the process of natural selection? It is a hard decision, on one hand I don't want to rescue one of the fu$%ing idiots but on the other hand........
All due respect my friend, I think it is important to step in and prevent an accident. If they refuse, then it's really their fault and you represented the climbing community well.
This area is like Williamson outside of LA in California US.
Peace and climb safe.
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jt512
Oct 23, 2003, 7:24 PM
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In reply to: :roll: Look, I see lots of gumby s--- at my crags.
Actually, that was quite a gumby show last weekend. A group of 4 gumbies, all lead belaying using figure 8s rigged in rappel mode. No gloves. At least two of the gumbies take their brake hand off the rope each time they feed out rope. The apparent head gumby kept "correcting" one belayer by telling him to be sure he tucked his brake hand behind ass, but never mentioned anything about keeping the brake hand on the rope. The belayer is sitting 20 feet away from the wall, has too much slack in the rope, and is unanchored. The leader back clips the first bolt, so the belay probably doesn't matter, anyway.
Earlier the same group had no idea how to handle a two-pitch rappel (with an intermediate bolted rap anchor) with a single rope. The head gumby, from the ground, kept yelling up vague instruction for the guy to somehow "belay himself" down. Fortunately, the advice wasn't taken. Instead, oddly enough, the guy fixed his rope to the anchor and did a single-line rappel to the ground. Then, hikes around and up to the top of wall to retrieve his rope. Weird.
-Jay
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trbrts
Oct 23, 2003, 7:32 PM
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do we have to keep doing this us vs. them b.s. Just climb, climb it all, and have fun. Sometimes other climbers are retarded. Sometimes you think somebody is retarded and then they end up being really cool. Sometimes you think you're bad ass until somebody puts you in your place. Climb trad, climb sport, climb boulders. This board is like a broken record. It's all climbing.
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mattdog
Oct 23, 2003, 7:48 PM
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Seriously... chill out folks.
They're not your mountains or your routes. I know we climbers are naturally selective about our sport, because climbing is so much cooler than everything else... but don't be the dickhead that makes us all look bad.
I'm a sport climber. Why? Because after 2 ropes, harnesses, shoes, quickdraws, chalkbags, I'm fresh out of cash. Sometimes I go off route. Sometimes, I find that someone has chopped a bolt on the route and now there's a 30 foot run-out on my 5.8.
Yeah, eventually, I'm going to learn trad... once someone experienced takes the time to teach me. But until then, I'll TR or lead bolted routes.
I just hope the traditionalists on the ground aren't making fun of me because I clipped in off route. We're not all sport climbers because we're idiots. Get a life.
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inflight
Oct 23, 2003, 8:03 PM
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Yo
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sierramike
Oct 23, 2003, 8:10 PM
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Actually, they are OUR mountains and OUR routes. All of ours. That means that we have an inherent responsibility to protect those that venture forth. I believe what some people are responding to is the fact that we are seeing more and more people at the crags (OUR crags!!) who need help (notice that I, nor anyone else, didn't say they do not belong there). Those of us who know should teach, those of us who don't know should learn. If someone makes a conscious decision not to heed sound advice, then shame on them. Ain't freedom grand.
Trad vs. sport...hmmm....
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dingus
Oct 23, 2003, 8:13 PM
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In reply to: do we have to keep doing this us vs. them b.s
Yes. We humans are tribal. Get used to it.
DMT
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floridaputz
Oct 23, 2003, 8:50 PM
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I've climbed trad for near 30 years, I took up sport climbing about 5-6 years ago. I find Gym and Sport climbers think they are hot shit and have no humility. No respect for tradition or experience. Frankly a lot of these climbers act like they know it all. And in reality they know very little. Maybe it's just the lack of respect of American youth. But I also have met some great people sport climbing.
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renobdarb
Oct 23, 2003, 9:02 PM
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In reply to: I've climbed trad for near 30 years, I took up sport climbing about 5-6 years ago. I find Gym and Sport climbers think they are hot s--- and have no humility. No respect for tradition or experience. Frankly a lot of these climbers act like they know it all. And in reality they know very little. Maybe it's just the lack of respect of American youth. But I also have met some great people sport climbing.
It's people like you who also think all american indians are drunks and all black people are crack addicts... how's the climbing down there in Florida, anyways?
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mattdog
Oct 23, 2003, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: Seriously... chill out folks. I don't make fun of competent climbers. I have respect for people who get their skills and knowledge in order before setting off the ground. This includes route finding, how to retreat, down climbing, belaying, clipping a bolt and the rope, racking, tieing in, how to build a top rope anchor or feed the rope through the chains without dropping the rope or yourself.
You've missed my point... the original thread was not:
"Noobs getting themselves in trouble last weekend"
it was...
"Reasons why trad climbers look down on sport weenies."
muncher has lumped sport climbers in with noobs and weenies. just because you can climb trad doesn't give you exclusive rights to the mountain. it also doesn't make you a better climber, or even more knowledgeable.
my point is, don't lump everyone together. i can do all of the things you mentioned correctly because i took the time to learn. just because I climb sport doesn't mean I'm an idiot.
one more question though... why is it so bad to step on the bolts? I thought they were part of the route. :wink:
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floridaputz
Oct 23, 2003, 9:11 PM
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Hey Boner, Nice name ! What does sport climbing have to do with Indians or blacks..?
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robmcc
Oct 23, 2003, 9:11 PM
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In reply to: To prove my point try this...go on the trad forum and post the subject, "Reasons why sport climbers hate trad a..holes" and bring up some of the stupid things you've seen trad climbers do.
That's because trad climbers don't do stupid things. At least not for very long.
Rob
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jellybean
Oct 23, 2003, 9:24 PM
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Climbing is just climbing. Trad and sport both have their different challenges. Preferring either one doesn't make anyone a better/worse climber, since your abilities and skill don't depend on whether you place your gear or use the bolts.
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alpnclmbr1
Oct 23, 2003, 9:39 PM
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As far as the original post appropriateness, I think it is a good thing to point out gumbie moves in the that maybe it will help prevent one or two instances of gumbie behavior.
As far as the sport climbers that complain about trad climbers bagging on gumbie sport climbers, when there is a equal number of gumbies in each category, then maybe you will have a basis for complaining. As it is there are more gumbie sportos because of the nature of the skillsets involved. Trad climbers learn how to stay alive first and foremost, sport climbers learn how to climb up a rock first, falsely assuming that it is supposed to be safe no matter what.
Now for the kicker:
Anybody that "only" sport climbs, trad climbs or boulders is by my definition a gumbie. Being well rounded is basic to being a climber, and if your not there yet, or at least working on it, your not a Climber as far as I am concerned.
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robmcc
Oct 23, 2003, 9:47 PM
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In reply to: Anybody that "only" sport climbs, trad climbs or boulders is by my definition a gumbie. Being well rounded is basic to being a climber, and if your not there yet, or at least working on it, your not a Climber as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for the good laugh. :lol:
I'm gonna rush right out and boulder just to impress you. That has to be the height of arrogance to think anybody cares that you, I, or anyone else thinks they're a climber or not. That or a troll. Not a bad one, either.
Then again, *I* think I'm a gumby. What's one more person agreeing with me?
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renobdarb
Oct 23, 2003, 9:47 PM
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In reply to: Hey Boner, Nice name ! What does sport climbing have to do with Indians or blacks..?
:lol:
I sincerely hope you were not trying to offend me with the name reference, but my fear is that you were... For your sake I hope I'm wrong, because it would put you in the same class as middle school pimple-faced weenies with no pubes... I would expect a self-proclaimed "old aged" climber such as yourself to know how laughable that really is...
And I apologize if I implied you were racist... I was mearly implying that you're prejudice... you judge a whole group of people by the acts of some rowdy and immature few... I would hope someone of a resonable adult age and intelligence would see through that, but I guess that would be generalizing, too... you're an obvious exeption...
your username couldn't be more appropriate...
grow up... :lol:
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muncher
Oct 23, 2003, 10:06 PM
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Geeze guys, chill out. If anyone had checked my profile they would have seen that I too am a sport climber, I climb trad here and there as well but mainly just clip bolts. I was just pointing out that you don't often see trad climbers making these kind of mistakes, they wouldn't live long enough.
I wasn't trying to bag out noobs either, I know plenty of noobs who are quite capable of looking up at a route to see where it goes before they get on it. It is not very difficult, especially when it is a dead verticle line marked with big shiny ringbolts. These people weren't noobs anyway, they were climbing 5.10/11 so obviously had spent some time climbing even it was mostly in the gym. They probably have some kind of mental disability that causes them to repeatedly make stupid mistakes and nearly kill themselves.
I did give them advice on numerouse occaisions but nothing really seemed to sink in. I don't care how or what poeple are climbing either but when you see people needlessly putting themselves in life threatening situations and freaking out, screaming etc it just ruins vibe and the day for everyone else.
This is the kind of behaviour at the crags that leads to accidents and what these people completely failed to understand.
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