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What'n tarnation is Trad?
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ronamick


Nov 9, 2003, 6:14 PM
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What'n tarnation is Trad?
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I just finished reading a bunch of posts about when people started "trad" climbing. Most of the old climbers like me mentioned that it was "just climbing" then, and this probably is puzzling to a lot of you younger climbers, who know only the contemporary meaning of the term "trad".

Well you kids just sit back for a minute and let your uncle Ron tell you a story about climbing way back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and trads had yet to evolve out of the primordial climbing ooze. I hear you groaning, so I'll keep it short.

Back when me and these other old fellers started climbing, in the 60's and 70's, there was 2 kinds of climbing- free, and aid. Free climbing was what all the young climbers were doing (yep, we were actually young). Protection was changing at that time from pitons to chocks & nuts, and the emphasis was on hammerless, or "clean" ascents. Clean climbing quickly
took over, and pitons have been relegated to the big walls ever since.

It wasn't until sometime in the 80's that those cheatin' europeans started hangdogging routes so they could work out harder climbs. Most of us took a pretty dim view of that French hooey, and we started calling ourselves traditional style climbers, to keep anybody from mixing us up with those Fruity Frenchies. The european hang 'n dangle style became known as "sport" climbing (we had a different name for it), and traditional got shortened to trad.

What it means now, I don't think anybody knows. The best I can tell, a trad route is scary, old school and you place gear. A trad climber is scary, old school and uses gear that has no springs, pulleys, wires, levers or cams (or at least owns some). I dunno. But if you're old, when you started climbing, it was just climbing.

Got all that? Good. Now where's my rack of hexes....


maculated


Nov 9, 2003, 6:26 PM
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Nah nah nah, Ron . . .

Trad climbing is dynamic rope and spring-loaded cams and 5.10 Stealth Rubber.

That stuff you were doing in the 60's? That's Old Skool X-Treme. You were doing the stuff that I would never, in all my wildest dreams, try to do. You make my jaw drop.


couloir


Nov 9, 2003, 7:12 PM
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Say Ronnie,

I noticed that some of the routes you have listed on your profile seem to be those weenie French sport routes you were blasting. Interesting. Maybe you led them without the bolts and found gear placements(all passive of course). There's a lot of people on this earth and a lot of rock. Let's not judge everyone one of them. Except for the pieces of sh!t that drill and enhance holds.


boz84


Nov 9, 2003, 7:27 PM
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coulior, I think its fairly obvious that the bulk of the post is in jest and is meant to be humorous.

My great uncle tells me lots of stories of his climbing back in the 60's, and, to put it bluntly, it REALLY IS X-TREME!

I had a blast showing him my harness...
"oh, so you put your legs through these things?"

and my fancy madrocks
"What's wrong with boots? These things look like they hurt your feet!"

Demonstrating my high-tech ATC-XP also was thought provoking from him...
"Don't you just rap the rope around your body?"


Truly amzing that these so called "old timers" were doing things at the level they were, considering the inherent danger.

So what you can climb 5.15 now? Its on bomber bolts, X-Treme is chockstones and slings.


curt


Nov 9, 2003, 7:30 PM
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Oh, I thought this thread was about Tard climbing. Am I dsyelxic?

Curt


herm


Nov 9, 2003, 9:17 PM
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That would be Drat climbing....


couloir


Nov 9, 2003, 9:31 PM
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Boz,

I understand that the story was meant to be humorous. I tried to make mine humurous as well. Maybe it didn't come off that way. I realize how hardcore the climbers were back in the day. Much more so than 95% of climbers now. But when people are kidding at least part of what they are saying is true. It's all climbing though, so it's obviously not that important anyway. Peace


jakedatc


Nov 9, 2003, 10:45 PM
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That would be Drat climbing....

Lol.. no that would be Dart climbing.. you drat :lol:


mattdog


Nov 10, 2003, 5:37 AM
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Ron,
Great story... don't be afraid to enlighten us young folks with more stories about the glory days. Someday we'll be worthy ;-)
Matt


blueeyedclimber


Nov 10, 2003, 7:37 AM
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It wasn't until sometime in the 80's that those cheatin' europeans started hangdogging routes so they could work out harder climbs. Most of us took a pretty dim view of that French hooey, and we started calling ourselves traditional style climbers, to keep anybody from mixing us up with those Fruity Frenchies. The european hang 'n dangle style became known as "sport" climbing (we had a different name for it), and traditional got shortened to trad.

Good ole George W. Bush. He's made it perfectly acceptable to put down and belittle the French. I think, if I am not mistaken, that that was his platform. Way to go, George!


dingus


Nov 10, 2003, 7:44 AM
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Amusing, but quite... wrong.

Trad, sport, aid and bouldering refer to sexual orientation. Always did.

You fill in the blanks.

DMT


thegreytradster


Nov 10, 2003, 9:22 AM
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It wasn't until sometime in the 80's that those cheatin' europeans started hangdogging routes so they could work out harder climbs. Most of us took a pretty dim view of that French hooey, and we started calling ourselves traditional style climbers, to keep anybody from mixing us up with those Fruity Frenchies. The european hang 'n dangle style became known as "sport" climbing (we had a different name for it), and traditional got shortened to trad.

Good ole George W. Bush. He's made it perfectly acceptable to put down and belittle the French. I think, if I am not mistaken, that that was his platform. Way to go, George!

"French Free" was a synonym for cheating about 20 years ago when George was still partying and flying F 102's

"Damn cheese eatin surrender monkeys" Homer S.


ronamick


Nov 10, 2003, 4:17 PM
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Say Ronnie,

I noticed that some of the routes you have listed on your profile seem to be those weenie French sport routes you were blasting. Interesting. Maybe you led them without the bolts and found gear placements(all passive of course). There's a lot of people on this earth and a lot of rock. Let's not judge everyone one of them. Except for the pieces of sh!t that drill and enhance holds.

Wow. Aren't we the illiterate one? Did I "blast" any routes, weenie, French or otherwise? You are responding to something out of your own tiny mind, not my post. In addition to your inability to comprehend that which you read, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground regarding routes.

Where did you get the idea that bolted routes can't be climbed trad? What if the routes were put up in trad style? Are you saying that all face is sport and all cracks are trad then? What's a 2 pitch route with one pitch of face and one of crack then. No, wait, don't strain yourself. It's not my job to educate you. I get the feeling that would be a waste of time anyway.

And who did I judge? What judgement did I pass? I missed that part completely. If you want a judgement, here it is. You sir, are a bona fide moron.


ronamick


Nov 10, 2003, 4:18 PM
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Amusing, but quite... wrong.

Trad, sport, aid and bouldering refer to sexual orientation. Always did.

You fill in the blanks.

DMT

Really. That explains the provocative e-mails I've been getting.


fredo


Nov 11, 2003, 4:37 PM
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Oh, I thought this thread was about Tard climbing. Am I dsyelxic?

Curt


that made nearly wet myself while laughing...sorry long day in the lab

oderf :P


timstich


Nov 11, 2003, 5:14 PM
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Oh, I thought this thread was about Tard climbing. Am I dsyelxic?

Curt

You see what you want to see when you read.


craggincragin


Nov 11, 2003, 5:25 PM
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Say Ronnie,

I noticed that some of the routes you have listed on your profile seem to be those weenie French sport routes you were blasting. Interesting. Maybe you led them without the bolts and found gear placements(all passive of course). There's a lot of people on this earth and a lot of rock. Let's not judge everyone one of them. Except for the pieces of sh!t that drill and enhance holds.

Wow. Aren't we the illiterate one? Did I "blast" any routes, weenie, French or otherwise? You are responding to something out of your own tiny mind, not my post. In addition to your inability to comprehend that which you read, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground regarding routes.

Where did you get the idea that bolted routes can't be climbed trad? What if the routes were put up in trad style? Are you saying that all face is sport and all cracks are trad then? What's a 2 pitch route with one pitch of face and one of crack then. No, wait, don't strain yourself. It's not my job to educate you. I get the feeling that would be a waste of time anyway.

And who did I judge? What judgement did I pass? I missed that part completely. If you want a judgement, here it is. You sir, are a bona fide moron.

My, my, my. Who woke up on the wrong side of the portaledge this morning? What is to be gained from reading your paragraphs dripping with profane sarcasm?

Your ignorant attitude seems to have overlooked the fact that couloir was simply pointing out that you were indeed judging the French by their climbing style. Each to his own, you ignorant twit.


rokshoxbkr19


Nov 11, 2003, 5:39 PM
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Whoa Whoa Whoa there children, can't we all just play nice, no name calling. My goodness. :roll: Anyway, seeing as how I am self centered I am just wondering... Will anything I am doing be considered extreme by the youngsters of climbing years to come...??? I sure hope so, anyway I can always just make up stories of me flying past Potter on some insane crack in Yosemite. No matter what, I will be the man either in truth or tale.LOL ROCK ON CLIMBERS OF YEARS PAST


bigfoot


Nov 11, 2003, 5:54 PM
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Say Ronnie,

I noticed that some of the routes you have listed on your profile seem to be those weenie French sport routes you were blasting. Interesting. Maybe you led them without the bolts and found gear placements(all passive of course). There's a lot of people on this earth and a lot of rock. Let's not judge everyone one of them. Except for the pieces of sh!t that drill and enhance holds.

Wow. Aren't we the illiterate one? Did I "blast" any routes, weenie, French or otherwise? You are responding to something out of your own tiny mind, not my post. In addition to your inability to comprehend that which you read, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground regarding routes.


Where did you get the idea that bolted routes can't be climbed trad? What if the routes were put up in trad style? Are you saying that all face is sport and all cracks are trad then? What's a 2 pitch route with one pitch of face and one of crack then. No, wait, don't strain yourself. It's not my job to educate you. I get the feeling that would be a waste of time anyway.

And who did I judge? What judgement did I pass? I missed that part completely. If you want a judgement, here it is. You sir, are a bona fide moron.

I know your old and memory is probably slipping, in the original post you wrote of sport climbers as-- "cheatin' europeans"- claimed that "most of us took a pretty dim view of that french hooey"- and said you "had a different name for it"- now maybe its just me but those quotes seem to suggest a pretty poor outlook on sport climbing which is why you were accused of bashing. Why don't you calm yourself down, drink a nice cup of prune juice, and go to bed at 7:30. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was just kidding, chill out a bit bro


mrme


Nov 11, 2003, 7:03 PM
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no i think he said french hung there way up routs and americans tried to climb them straight from the ground up just a distinct difrence origianally no refrence was made to gear other than pitons and passive pro! kinda like the article in rock & ice no.129 ben heason's do-or-die quest to purify extreme trad climbing a person who prefers not to headpoint a route to death and just climbs it .... he choose a diffrent ethical style than some of the other bad *ss climbers that climb that extreme stuff one being better than the other who knows just a difrence in style, but the artical is defently biased wrote to his style than the others.....some ones opion just like the origianal post.... americians that there style better as french i am sure thought theres was....only time tells and then sometimes it doesn't and some areas stay the same as others change.


kagunkie


Nov 11, 2003, 7:48 PM
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It sometimes makes me snort milk out of my nose laughing when I see just how clueless some of the people who frequent this site are about climbing. Yes it's come to a very sad state of affairs when the up and coming generation of climbers think trad is just the "old way" and needs to be replaced with something like plastic holds and hangers riveted every three feet up every piece of rock in the country.


kagunkie


Nov 11, 2003, 7:51 PM
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I just snorted my milk out of my nose laughing again seeing just how clueless some of the people who frequent this site are about climbing. Yes it's come to a very sad state of affairs when the up and coming generation of climbers think trad is just the "old way" and needs to be replaced with something like plastic holds and hangers riveted every three feet up every piece of rock in the country.


ronamick


Nov 15, 2003, 5:52 PM
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Aw, come on you guys, it's FUN bein' a asshole!


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